Most liked posts in thread: Oh, the wicked web you weave...

Justa Jim · Sep 20, 2015

Germany is a small country, they run their diesels there and do not have a smog problem. I believe that the EPA emission standards here, are driven by the oil companies, who do not want to see a 60 mpg vehicle on our shores. It would cut into their profits.

Steve · Sep 21, 2015

Volkswagen recalls own pants (sniffpetrol.com)

Monday, September 21st, 2015

Volkswagen has issued a precautionary recall for its own pants after noticing that they may be on fire.

â€˜This is purely a precaution,â€™ said VW spokesman Karl-Hans Pinocchio. â€˜Yes, there might be a small about of fire around the area of our pants, but they will not emit over 40 times the permitted amounts of nitrogen oxides and cause respiratory problems in children as long as we keep them inside this emissions testing facility.â€™

A VW insider later admitted that the emissions relating to the companyâ€™s pants being on fire are likely to be dwarfed by those caused by suddenly burning through $18 billion.
Click to expand...

Metalman · Sep 21, 2015

Welp.... apparently recently departed VW Chairman Ferdinand Piech left an Easter Egg....

Miss me now?

Metalman · Sep 23, 2015

Rumor has it our government will apply the $18B windfall fines towards propping up our social security system or maybe medicaid or maybe our highway and bridge infrastructure or maybe helping the vet's or maybe the homeless......

Whoops.... This just in.... it's going into the Foreign Aid fund.... After they finish that road up in Alaska...

Alaska's 'road to nowhere' is still a boondoggle - LA Times

Nathan · Sep 23, 2015

Lets leave the politics out of all this please.

mrntd · Sep 24, 2015

Maybe Fiat will switch their takeover focus from GM to VW. Wait haven't the Germans and Italians teamed up before?

Steve · Sep 24, 2015

Posted to the Midweek Motorsport Listeners Collective Facebook page. (A FB page associated with the Midweek Motorsport radio show by radiolemans.com)

I'm posting it here only because of the explanation of the differences in compliance testing, etc, between the US and EU. Interesting stuff, assuming it's all true.

What VW have done is this; their diesel engine ECUs include some coding known in the industry as a "cycle beater". Cycle beaters recognise when a car is undergoing an emissions test. They can do this because the drive cycles (consisting of set speeds and acc/decelerations for certain durations) utilised for emissions testing are very prescriptive and consequently, recognisable. The drive cycle in the US is defined by the EPA and in Europe by the EC, known as the New European Drive Cycle (NEDC), although it's actually some 40 years old now! Both cycles are different and consequently pretty hard to compare, although they do both follow the same prescriptive philosophy. When the ECU/cycle beater recognises an emissions test is occurring the engine then employs a mode that improves emissions test results and there are several ways of doing this. This is on the assumption that one cycle beater can recognise either of the two drive cycles.

Cycle beaters are not illegal in Europe, all the OEMs use every trick they can to get the best result possible. Why wouldn't they when the loopholes are there and they're operating in such a competitive market!? Cycle beaters are only one such trick and many, if not all, of the OEMs are at it and not just for emissions testing. However, much like tax avoidance, it is up to the legislators to close these loopholes, rather than publicly condone an OEM for not sticking within the spirit of the regulations. They have not broken the law after all. However, in the US things are different...

When certifying a car for sale in the EU an OEM is only obliged to present a production specification vehicle for approval that must then pass the test there and then, as presented. These tests are witnessed by an authority, often a government department, to ensure the test is conducted correctly. Even for retests during production runs, conducted on randomly selected cars, (known as Conformity of Production), the car must only pass the test there and then, as presented. Therefore, the production vehicles have cycle beaters built in to their ECUs so they are representative of production specification cars. Again, none of this is illegal in the EU.

This is where VW have fallen down though. In the US, approval tests are self certified and generally unwitnessed, although I'm told emissions are the exception and the EPA do witness these tests. The OEM presents a test report as evidence that they comply with the regulation and in doing so are stating they are compliant AT ALL TIMES, not just in the test laboratory. This is where the US and EU approval processes differ the most.

Understandably, VW have pursued global build standards for their vehicles to save cost and complexity, whereby the same specification of car can be sold in the EU or US. However, in doing so they have failed to remove the cycle beaters that are legal in the EU and contravened the US regulations. Whether this has happened because of arrogance in taking a (mis)calculated risk or a lack of respect for the US regulations, we cannot say for definite. All we do know is that VW got caught and the US legal system is such that woe betide anyone who does not comply with their regulations, they'll be hit by punitive fines that could kill them off for good. VW stole a march on everyone else with diesel sales into the US (Audi's ALMS R10 TDI programme played it's part in this) and a conspiracy theorist might like to suggest that a thorn in GM and Ford's side has now been dealt with...but of course there is zero evidence for this.

So that's what happened to VW and the consequences for them and OEMs importing into the US as a whole could be huge. Based on the numbers that have been mentioned, I would say VW's marketing budget, including motorsport activities, could be at risk from the amount they'll have to pay out in legal fees and fines over the coming months.

Emissions were already a political hot potato and things could be about to get hotter... For example, the EC will likely be asking questions of KBA, the German approval authority, for potentially knowingly approving vehicles that do not comply with the spirit of the law. How much of a legal case, the EC and anyone else in the EU will have, as the law has not actually been broken, remains to be seen. One for the lawyers to fight out...

Also, the UK is currently being fined by the EC for below par air quality. You'd think the Environment Agency will now be arguing that this poor air quality is not their fault but the fault of VWs and perhaps other cars, not necessarily having fully EU compliant exhaust emissions...despite the approvals being in place from KBA. How this all pans out will be fascinating and the consequences could be huge. It is worth pointing out that the public have nothing to worry about, this should not cost them any money or inconvenience. A recall to recalibrate ECUs and remove cycle beaters is possible though I suppose, pointless as that would be. It could be a lucrative time for emissions test organisations too.

I would imagine engine calibration departments across European OEMs importing into the US are busy and uncomfortable places to work at the moment.

I hope that sheds some light and understanding into what's happened and what the implications could be going forward. As always, don't believe everything you read in the mainstream media.

Personally, I feel sorry for VW and fear for their and my beloved Audi's future but it seems they could've brought it on themselves, time will tell...
Click to expand...

minirab · Sep 25, 2015

When I retired I didn't even get a damn watch!

Crashton · Sep 29, 2015

VW's goose is cooked. I wonder how long until Benz & BMW join in VW's fun. Bet all the cheater's are scrambling around looking for a scapegoat.

Crashton · Sep 29, 2015

Bosch is doing the big CYA. :yesnod:

Nathan · Nov 5, 2015

VW woes continue...

Volkswagen Recalling 92,000 Cars For Shearing Camshafts, Loss Of Power BrakesÂ (Update)Â

Metalman · Nov 5, 2015

And the way VW was run probably had a lot to do with the pickle they're in now....

Lutz: One Man's Use Of Fear And Intimidation Caused VW's Emissions Scandal

Crashton · Nov 26, 2015

Yep I'm sure they got the only 2 responsible. Seems the German's are very good at saying "we didn't know".

Crashton · Sep 18, 2015

Brilliant me thinks. I know this will cost them plenty, but I really wonder what they will do about all those diesels with the cheeky software. Owners are not going to want to have their cars reflashed with new software. Especially if their oil burners are running fine.

whaap · Sep 18, 2015

It's things like this that caused the need for punitive damages!

Minidave · Sep 18, 2015

I've been saying all along, those cars stink! Now I know why.....

Everyone talks about "clean" diesels" and every time I get behind one my eyes water and my stomach turns....

I had a new Jetta pull out from a gas station right in front of me and nail it - it didn't look like he was rolling coal but it sure left a good brown cloud behind it till he took his foot out of it!

Crashton · Sep 18, 2015

Never cared for diesels. They all stink.....

Rawhyde · Sep 18, 2015

If I had one, I wouldn't "upgrade" it...

If not for the timing belt, I'd have bought a Jetta Diesel instead of the soul crushing Civic when my long commute got even longer...

Justa Jim · Sep 18, 2015

You go VW. I'm surprised the EPA figured it our.

rkw · Sep 19, 2015

Hoping to see ZippyNH chime in (replaced his R53 with a Jetta TDI).

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