Engine Drivetrain 2nd Gen S OldBrokenWind's "Phoenix"

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by oldbrokenwind, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. Guest - Welcome to the new Motoring Alliance Site! Steve, MCS02 and I were up until the early hours this morning working to get it done... as you can see it took us a bit longer than expected to get Phase 1 up and running. We are not 100% there.. its a journey. For site updates, "How Do I" and feedback please use the Announcements, How Do I, Feedback Forum (Links below). Like building a car.... its never done... and thanks for your patience

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  1. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    #1 oldbrokenwind, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
    Well, almost. The original arose from it’s own ashes, while mine is just being rebuilt in it’s own garage. I started with a big Garrett GT28RS, which eventually broke and was replaced by a slightly better GTX2860R. As it evolved, the engine bottom-end was upgraded to CP Carrillo pistons and rods, which proved to be not enough for all the boost it produced. My original build thread is http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/member-garages/15303-2007-mini-mcs.html and was updated gradually over about 5 years.

    It’s final day is described in this thread http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/cooper-s-clubman-s-engine-and-drivetrain/28304-baddest-deadest.html along with the decision-making process of what to do next. It includes an interesting discussion on what actually caused the damage”- tuning or hardware selection. I consider the participants knowledgeable, and I value their opinion, but I’m a very hard-headed old fart”- uhhh, fogey, and chose to not follow their advice to change tuner. Instead, I’m lowering compression, beefing up the engine bottom-end, and lowering boost from 30 to about 25PSI. After break-in, I’ll make the trip to Tempe (ironically, a suburb of Phoenix, AZ) for another tune (same tuner) —- one that matches the different mods. This time, I might use a trailer instead of driving it, I’m not as confident as I used to be”- TBD.

    Anyhow, the first thread has an inappropriate title (with the original turbo), and the second thread describes how it died. This thread is intended to document the rebuild and its results. I don’t expect to beat my previous 361WHP, at least not at 25PSI, but that too is TBD. 30PSI boost is just a simple adjustment away.

    Both the head and block have had their mating surfaces "flattened", so between that, ARP studs, and a Cometic gasket, I should have minimized compression loss. 'Course, there's always other ways --- blown piston or valve, etc.

    Now to prep for assembly --- oil squirters in each cylinder, main bearings (not to forget thrust bearings), oil seals, block halves guide pins and sealant. Selecting proper bearing color was a challenge, for me and the dealers parts guy. He had to get info from a service tech on how to translate the factory ID system --- this is a relatively new dealership, in a community where most Mini's are OEM, minimal mods, especially "shade tree mechanic" engine work.

    Then fit the piston rings, install rods, new timing chain, then flywheel. Gotta use a scrap flywheel 'cause my OS Giken is one made before they knew it needed a 90 deg locking pin hole. Makes for an even more painful process.

    Then, to do a valve / piston interference test, I gotta find an old head gasket, a bunch of old head bolts, and assemble the head to the block. Still gotta shop for some modeling clay. My tuner, EuroTechsAZ, has also been advising me, furnishing parts and info, and has been extremely helpful!

    But, I'm getting way ahead of myself. Probably gonna take a full day (my days are pretty short) to just get the block halves together. I'm slow and really want to be careful.

    I gotta admit, this initial post is almost a duplicate of a post in the competing forum. The difference is, I can't figure out how to include pics from my desktop to the body of this text --- I get an "Invalid URL" message. Not a problem in the other forum. If someone will let me know the process for attaching pics, I've got a bunch.
     
  2. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    Here's a quick progress update ---

    For those that aren't familiar with a Cylinder Support System, here's a couple pics of my original blown engine and the used one I'm rebuilding with the CSS installed.

    I'm also balancing the piston / rod assys. Since all these parts are virgins, they're clean enough to be done on our dining room table. It took a little extra persuasion for the spouse, but it was OK'd. They came in within a gram of each other, with one being a lot more out than the other two, so I decided to trim it. Found an article on balancing that shows where a piston can be altered. After a little dremel and sandpaper work, they're all within 150mG of each other. The lightest set is 830.690 Grams. All the parts in the pic were included in the weight.
     

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  3. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Just don't put a crap tune or untested parts on it or all the CCS is will be done for nothing.
     
  4. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    #4 oldbrokenwind, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
    OK, I left out a bunch of intermediate stuff, but it's back up and running. Just started the break-in and will be at it for another couple weeks --- I'm slow!

    Had more than my share of "do-overs", mostly 'cause I put it back together all by myself. Really shoulda had some help jockeying the engine back into the engine bay --- bent the hell out of an A/C tube and had to replace it, and had the driver-side headlight harness on the wrong side of the chassis.

    During my first couple break-in runs, it quit on me --- out in the middle of nowhere. Managed to get a 20 buck AAA tow home, where I found a loose hose from turbo to FMIC. After running 30PSI before breaking it, you'd think I'd know enough to tighten post-turbo hose clamps better than water hose clamps. Careless!!!

    Then there's an axle support, that bolts to the engine w/four big bolts. Shoulda put it on BEFORE mounting the engine --- a true PITA to access the bolts after it's installed.

    While getting a wheel align and A/C charge, the tech told me about a serious oil leak at the pan. Seems I used a questionable gasket-in-a-tube that didn't like heat. Pulling the pan isn't that tough UNLESS you have a 3" exhaust pipe that cover one miserable bolt. Just another PITA!

    Keeping the break-in pretty conservative --- Manic map "A", no WMI, and a default wastegate setting of about 15PSI. After the first 500 or so miles, I'll connect WMI, run map "B" and set the MBC to about 25PSI. Then I'll be ready for a Manic re-tune --- a dyno's being scheduled in Vegas during AMVIV next month. Differences between before and after builds are --- lower CR pistons, from 10.5:1 (77.0mm) to 9.0:1 (77.5mm), a block with a CSS, it now has a balanced crankshaft and CAT Cams (#1302603 for those who want to compare cam specs). I don't expect to top my previous 360+ WHP, but it should put down 300+! It's starting to feel pretty good, even while at these low break-in settings.
     
  5. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    Here's the dyno runs from my AMVIV visit. Map "C" is awesome, but map "B" isn't too bad either. Dyno wasn't connected to the ignition system so the RPM numbers aren't correct. Tuner raised the max RPM to 7.5K. Also gotta do some more data logging to verify the boost drop from MBC settings to 5 - 6 PSI lower. I'm thinking the dyno hose caused it, but the tuner thinks I'm maxing out the big Garrett with my Cat Cams.
     

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  6. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Nice looking numbers !!
     
  7. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    UPDATE --- Relocated my MBC source to the silicon elbow at the intake manifold. Also installed a JMTC ICI pipe, which caused me to move the external DV. Then had to reconnect the DV as a BOV 'cause there wasn't space to route a DV return hose --- what a PITA.

    Found a local dyno to check my boost settings, and it looks like my tuner was right --- the GTX2860R hasn't got enough to feed this engine. Garrett rates it at 300 - 400HP and they must be referring to BHP --- according to this "tech tip" --- http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=64/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd64.htm I'm quite a bit over their 400 limit. If anyone has more info on this dyno conversion subject, please post it, or a link.

    Dyno operator gave me quite a bit of good info about dyno's and weather corrections. Seems the chart shows the sea level equivalent of the actual pull. Apparently, that's what the "WC" stands for on the chart grid labels, and it also explains why a Mustang can produce the same numbers as a DynoJet --- "weather corrections" must be an industry standard. My above "tech tip" mentions this too. BTW, Reno is about 4500' elevation, on test day ambient temp was in the mid-90's, and humidity was in the teens.

    Anyhow, here's a couple charts showing my map C results. Note that the boost setting is a bit lower than my LV pull, and the boost peak isn't as sharp but still a significant loss. Now to start a turbo search ---
     

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  8. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Very nice.
     
  9. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    Last Sept, I was pushing hard on a long gradual incline out in the middle of nowhere, and blew a #1 exhaust valve. Also lost the ground electrode on #1 plug. Those that can recognize the indications, tell me it was overheated and I have either a lean AFR or not enough WMI. Pretty sure the AFR is OK, so I added a WMI jet to each intake port and increased the single jet from 1.2 to a total of 2.0mm --- here's some pics of the changes. Note the homemade bracket supporting the MAF sensor and filter. Maybe someday I'll paint it. Also took out the long air tube from the front to the filter housing. Filter is now completely exposed to engine compartment heat. We'll see how air inlet temps respond.

    Valves are now all SuperTech --- sodium filled inconel for ex and black nitrided SS for in. Should be able to handle a bit more heat now. Also found some heat range 9 plugs --- NGK R2556B-9/4962. Don't ask about the cost. First thing I noticed was it didn't like to idle at start-up --- took a minute or so to get happy. Tappets were a little noisy during first start-up, but they probably needed time to pump up. After a little break-in, idle smoothed out and tappets quieted down.

    Been running for a couple months now --- really NICE, but have yet to really get on it --- FEAR! Also noticed the ICI pipe is an interference fit --- the built-in "dent", to clear the engine corner, is located in the wrong place. So I took my Dremel and cut away some of the Lock Bridge (as RealOEM calls it). Still a tight fit and needs more fine-tuning. Gonna shop around for a local aluminum welder, to fab a new section of the ICI pipe. Really disappointing!

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  10. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Dumb question, but could you do a data log to see if it is to lean? You must have had some very high temps to cause that exhaust valve to let go.
     
  11. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    My latest dyno chart, post #7 above, has the AFR included. And yes, my AP can be connected and do data logs, I just haven't used it in awhile. Also, when the valve let go, it was under about 30PSI boost.
     
  12. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    30psi is a lot of boost. That’s almost double what my R53 puts out. I know my R58 is higher but I can’t remember what it is I think 20 something. Did you check the other valves to make sure there is no damage to them?
     
  13. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    All valves were replaced --- Inconel for exhaust, SS for intakes. Between hi-temp valves and better WMI distribution, my overheating problems are hopefully resolved.
     
  14. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    FYI - On my list is adding to the garage the ability to put in HP numbers... going to be a little while till I can get to that one though. :)
     
  15. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    Maybe instead of just "HP numbers", how about the ability to add pics, dyno charts, PDF's, etc. Claiming an HP number is easy, but meaningless without some sort of substantiation , especially when in the 300+ range. Definitely low priority!
     
  16. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    All good feedback - I had some of that on my list.. will add some of the others. Thanks!
     
  17. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    My butt dyno is very accurate, I don’t need to show any charts! :D
     
  18. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Any chance you can think through and put together a list or layout you think would work? Also, where do you get your Meth? I’m trying to find a place in ATL. I may just have to order it from VP (used to buy gas from them and they would ship... plus they are located outside of Atlanta)..
     
  19. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    When I updated my garage (after my above post), I noticed there was already a space for WHP and torque. If that form was to be changed, maybe group the two entries together with a note to add a dyno chart. My chart has been added to my other pics.

    I have a VP distributor in downtown Reno, maybe an hour drive from home. When I get their 100 oct gas, I take my MT 5 gallon container for a refill --- saves a couple bucks. Check VP's website for a distributor near you?
     
  20. bugeye1031

    bugeye1031 New Member

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    oldbrokenwind - where did you source your ICI pipe? Looks like JMTC doesn't make them any longer.
     

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