MotoringFile Most liked posts in thread: Opinion: Keep Your DSG. I’ll Take a Manual.

Well

it's a decent intro... But where is the article? I'm thinking MF only posted part of it, as it ends before delivery or and any driving experience....

I'm hoping there's more to the post, cause as it stands now (12:32 AM Pacific time), there is no article to go with the title...

Matt

 

I'm glad my MINI has a manual manual.

 

The article is no different than the many ******* about which Gen MINI is better. Some cars have great DCT/DSG and some don't.

Drove the new Mitsu and I love that tranny.

 

There's a different way to look at it...

it's not the death of the standard manual that is in play, it's the death of the torque converter automatic! When considered in that vein, it's a transition that should be encouraged.

Manual transmissions are the least expensive torque coupler out there. So they will be around for a while.....

Matt

 

This is a family forum. Consider yourself warned.

 

My son wanted to purchase a 2010 VW GTI so we went to a couple local dealerships for test drives. All they had on the lots were GTIs with DSG transmissions. The sales people were not even interested in obtaining a manual for us to test drive. The sales people just said why would you want a manual since you can shift the DSG manually.

For the reasons Nathan pointed-out, I found the DSG very distracting to shift manually and ended up just putting the transmission in sport mode and letting it shift. No fun.

My son eventaully went to the Los Angeles area to test drive a 6 speed GTI. He purchased a GTI with a 6 speed because it was lighter, less expensive, less complicated (we guess less maintenance costs), and much more fun.

So maybe the intent is for the DSG to replace a torque coverter auto but that is not what is being done at the dealerships. Some dealerships (probably in non big cities) are not even getting 6 speed cars on the lot so the buyer does not even have a choice. Thus, the dealers are forcing the replacement of 6 speed with DSG.

 

Hey......to each his own bro' !

rrr:

 

There are not as many folks out there that can drive a manual, as there once were. As qukimni pointed out, many dealers are not stocking the manual and I have seen this too. A friend of ours has a five speed manual and her husband has an automatic. Their son is learning to drive, but leans more to the auto then the manual, as he has a lot of begineer problems as did we all. It dawned on me that I learned on a three speed, then went to a four, then five and now six over a period of a lot of years. I snuck up on each gear after three, but today they get all six tossed at them from the get go, which might turn them off. I hope the manual hangs around until I can't drive anymore, which is very likely.

Jim

 

I heard a statistic the other day that only 15% of American's can drive a manual transmission. With numbers like that, I'm scared for the manual-philes of the US.

When I last went to visit Ireland, I landed in Dublin on a large trans-Atlantic flight from New York. Another couple from my flight arrived at the rental car desk at the same time. I overheard this conversation:

Customer: "I'm sorry... I reserved a car with an automatic transmission."

Car Rental Staff: "Ah! In to visit us from the States? Lovely! I'm sorry that I missed that. Let me find you an automatic"​

My smallish people-carrier (think tiny Minivan) was under $80/day with a manual transmission. I priced out the rental on their compact automatic when I got home... over $250/day! I was never happier that my dad forced me to learn how to drive a stick!

 

That is sad, but true I'm sure. I had no choice, as my parents did not own an automatic, nor did anyone else I knew. I have only owned one and that was purely work related.

Jim

 

I drove the Tiptronic equipped Audi S5 with V8, the same S5 but with a manual, the S5 Cabrio with new 3.0T V6 with STronic (Audi's dual-clutch/PDK variant) as well as the new M3 sedan in manual and DCT. I've also driven DSG equipped Audi's and an SMG equipped BMW.

Bottom line...dual clutch is where its at. I found the DCT and STronic to be superior to their manual counterparts for spirited driving but both take time to 'relearn' 20+ years of experience in a three pedal car. Neither is smooth like an auto, however.

 

I love my manuals. The only Auto I've ever owned was the CVT A6 in 2003 and I kept that in manual mode most of the time. But I am looking forward to my next car that will have the DSG/SMG/PDK so I can stop rowing through gears while sitting in traffic.

 

Mercedes...

Is going to a 9 speed auto with torque converter just for the smooth shifts in the luxo-barge segment...

Matt

 

I've got a 7sp ZF in mine and its like buttah.....

But, put in Sport mode and it will aggressively downshift as appropriate as long as you engage the brakes. It also keeps it limited to six forward gears in Sport mode and also doesn't actively upshift (the thing I hate most about autos....). Its quite 'manual' like in that this particular transmission keeps the motor in the sweet spot. Not so in "Comfort" mode. That said, the full on Sport-Manual mode with paddle shifters....meh. Its pointless in my car....I leave it in Sport (auto) all the time.

 

Pulling back from the efficiencies and the skill prod and the weight slash cost slash maintenance for a second: what appeals to me most about stick is the DOING. I'm a bike rider, and I was a motorcyclist for several years. I enjoy being involved in the operation of the vehicle beyond deterring and stereo controls. There's something more intimate about the stick (let it go) that you lose in an auto even with paddles. It's isolating in comparison.

That is entirely an emotional factor, but I find it quite valid when considering that some people are car drivers from a to b and others are driving enthusiasts. Sure, long rush hour commute or lots of stops on hills, that automatic has a place. But after a year with an automatic, I was chomping at the bit to get back to a stick. And I was taught on an auto, btw. I went to motorcycles in college and that was the stepping stone into manual car transmissions...

 

There are lots of types of doing...

and if you're not screwing with gear changes, you can do a lot more with cornering and threshold braking.

But in the context of this article, you're ALREADY a manual guy. Look at PGT. He's a performance guy, and he sees value in what the new tech brings. The author of the Motoringfile post thought he was a PGT, and found he was a you!

I hear what you're saying though. There's a lot of personal preference that goes into how we drive and what we get from it. As I flog more and more cars, I'm gaining an appreciation for different types of engagement from different driving experiences...

I was a passenger in a Maserati MC12 around Laguna Seca. It's a computer controlled manual. I can say that ride was plenty engaging! Would have been moreso if I could have driven, but then, one doesn't get every wish!

Matt

 

to Matt's point, I know what I like and I know what I dislike. I'm more prone to avoid what I dislike than I am to focus only what I like when making a purchasing decision (does that even make sense??)

If I had a choice of a manual in a car, that would be my preference (and, over the years....75% or more of my cars have been so). That said, when given a choice like with the Audi S5, I compared the manual against the auto and semi-auto options and found the semi-auto to be the most engaging. Same for the BMW M3. MB doesn't offer many manuals at all and when they do, they're aren't that good so one has to weigh the involvement of three pedals vs. the quality of the experience with two.

One other thing to note is how most people use their cars. Buying a Sunday only car vs. a daily driver has a lot of bearing on buying decisions. One thing I disliked about the Audi and BMW was the lack of torque for normal driving. Sure, drive it like you stole it and its fast but most of us don't take an autocross course on the way to work.

In the end, cars with adaptable systems seem to be like the best mix of fun/mundane. The BMW, Audi and the MB I ended up buying all have options for adaptive suspension with settings to suit conditions. They also have Sport modes to adjust how responsive the transmissions are to your required needs. I know, I know...this makes them overly-complex but it also helps obviate the need for a daily driver AND a Sunday car. With the flick of a switch, you can almost have both in one vehicle.

 

I will say that when we (temporarily) chose to leave the MINI world for a more 'sensible' familyvagon (The Element) we specifically went after an automatic (no paddles on the E, ha) because we had spent far too much time stuck in traffic on hills in SF in the previous year, thanks to the increasing amount of traffic and construction re-routing. It seemed like we might as well save ourselves the stress of fearing we'd fry the clutch. Part of the comfort level in moving back to manual in the new MINI was that a) we live in Marin now, no shortage of hills but far less stops and lights and back-ups on them; and 2) Hill Assist. We're competent manual drivers, but we're no experts.

 

my Subaru STI was a 6sp manual with Hill Assist. A bit much to get used to but invaluable for hills once you did.