1st Gen R53 Ported head alternative and possible 1.8 Tritec

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by Whine not Walnuts, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    #1 Whine not Walnuts, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    I have a shop in Poland making some brackets and other parts for a ax1200 Whipple Supercharger I am now building after getting what I wanted from my M62 kits both of which I have sold.

    Early this week I was talking to the guy in Poland as he was chasing down a 1.6 liter Fiat E-TorQ head that he was pretty sure would work on the Tritec.

    74229514_2390811121136735_74048775236091904_n.jpg

    This is not a r50 Tritec with a ported head but rather a Fiat 1.6 E-TorQ engine. Fiat purchased the Brazilian Tritec plant in 2011. The Chrysler Engineer that was involved in developing the Tritec had this to say.

    Screenshot 2019-11-28 at 10.12.51 AM.png

    This is the 1.6 E-TorQ head sitting on top of a r53 Tritec head.

    78301642_809761646141964_738204358767804416_o.jpg

    This head bolts right on the Tritec with the valve cover, cam, cam gear, rockers, timing chain, and intake manifold also bolting up although the intake manifold does need to ported out.

    78421480_612667642806422_6114676078104543232_n.jpg re

    Through some Fiat contacts in Europe it was determined that the 1.6 uses the r50 crankshaft. Through pictures I found it appears the 1.8 engine uses a Siamese cylinder insert that eliminates the water port between the inner cylinders thereby allowing the use of the 1.6 block casting. This would mean the r53 crankshaft would work and that with the Siamese the engine could accept supercharging via forged rods and pistons. The 1.8 does not appear to have the proper bolt holes for the attachment of the supercharger snout.

    Screenshot 2019-11-28 at 7.30.41 PM.png
    Screenshot 2019-11-28 at 7.37.30 PM.png

    Both the 1.6 and 1.8 share the same stroke as the Tritec with the 1.8 bore increasing from 77 to 80.5 mm. I have reached out to Wiseco and CP on if they would make a MINI piston in this 80.5 bore. With the r53 crankshaft, forged rods and a 80.5 piston the only items remaining are confirmation of the transmission bolt lug spacing and the spacing of the timing chain/oil pump cover. Fiat uses Aisen transmissions and as the Tritec used both Aisen and Getrag the possibility is strong that the Getrag will mount to the E-TorQ.

    The 1.6 head should have different type valves installed to handle forced induction pressures. The head was successfully installed on a r53 and will be flow bench tested once valves are changed over. The 1.8 engine is used in Latin and South American where in Brazil it is an alcohol engine. I have found new short blocks for a little as $1250 US that does not include shipping.

    The Fiat/Tritec/E-TorQs have been out since 2012 and it is surprising that neither of these possible mods were ever attempted. Alejandro's comments are positive relative to the head and it appears this could be a low cost alternative to a "worked" MINI head.

    If you are interested in more information send me a PM.
     
  2. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Interesting that Fiat bought the Chrysler engine plant, because Chrysler and Fiat merged only 3 years later....in 2014.
     
  3. Jeff10049

    Jeff10049 Member

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    cool I have often wondered about the interchangeability of the various tritec engines and the latest e torq variant. That engine has roots back to the slant 6. I wonder what the export 1.6 neons might share with mini.
    Or what about the U.S. neons they were timing belt not chain but I wonder if the 3.98" stroke cranks could be modified some combo of rods pistons etc to make a stroked mini probably highly unlikely but would be fun to have the parts sitting there and play around with.
     
  4. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    So you have failed yet again and now are having guy from Poland trying to use a Fiat block and head.

    I will say your commitment to failure hysterical. I love reading the post on FB with you and Coleslaw your Polish engineer. lol


    I can take screenshots also.//:D

    1D4CB351-7E34-46DF-93DA-0DBC68F86A8F.jpeg
     
  5. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Ok I am slow I know that so I read it twice. I am not really sure what your doing. So you are going to put a R53 crank in the Fiat block and run the Fiat head because you believe it flows better? What is the valve size on the fiat head compared to the MINI? Is this to save money also?
    You said that you found a short block for a little as $1250 US that does not include shipping. Allmeg has a long block for $1199.99

    https://www.allmagautoparts.com/collections/mini-cooper/products/mini-cooper-s-engine-supercharged-146k-miles-1-6l-2002-2008-r52-r53

    If you want a cheap big valve head find a good local machine shop that works on drag cars. They can build you one. When I did the big valve head on my X 1/9 the only place you could buy a big valve head wanted a lot on money for them. The guy that did all the drag cars in this area heard me talking about it and found the valves that were the same size. He charged me a little more than the price of reworking the head.

    At this stage I will probably just buy a RMW head or chose your flavor.

    Hope you don't think I am being argumentative because I am not. I am curious and would like to hear more.
     
  6. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    wow, MCS02 the engine you listed has 146K on it!

    You built a hot rod X1/9? My son is in the process of installing a Honda K24 in his right now.....
     
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  7. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    It was long ago. somewhere around 82. I have heard about people doing the Honda conversion. I would love to do that. If he has a build thread going anywhere I would like to see it.

    I listed that engine because if he is going to put a new crank in the Fiat block you can get this head and all and rebuild it. Seems to me like you're not saving money on the Fiat. But I am not sure I know what he is trying to do.
     
  8. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    He doesn't exactly have a build thread, just posts the occasional pic on Facebook...….He bought a subframe kit and has welded it up and got the motor mounts sorted at this point, still has a LOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG ways to go!
     
  9. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    That guy is an absolute train wreck........
     
  10. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    Why not use the stock 1.6 block, bore it 81 mm , sleeve it, get some pistons and rods, Head/cam and intake.. blower or turbo and have fun??
    This is a hobby with most of us , and all the info we can gather is a good thing. As the W11 is getting older there are more bits/engines available , making for more deeper mods. Whine not Walnuts is passing good info. And Over seas has been doing weird things longer... lol, yes?
     
  11. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    The Polish guy did get one Fiat head completed for a R53 and a woman in the UK bought it. He turned out to be a bust but there is a real alternative to the Fiat 1.8 and its a ductile iron sleeved Tritec that was put together by Thumper Performance and an engine shop that built engines for Don Garlits. I have one in my R53.


    SAM_2192.JPG
     
  12. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    Thanks.. Yes, the 81 mm Steel sleeved, Blueprinted Forged Piston H-beamed Short Blocks are out there now. We use the super strong and thin Steel Sleeves. JE Pistons and K-1 Rods. New Performance Silicon-Aluminum Bearings, Block is Decked, Crankshaft is Mic'd and then Polished. Could be the Future. 1.8 Kits and build 004.JPG
     
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  13. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    :Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit:
     
  14. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    :Wtf::Wtf::Nailbiting::Nailbiting::Nailbiting::Nailbiting::Whistling::Whistling::Whistling::Whistling::Whistling:
    LOL who cares what you like. This guy is building and doing his modifications and showing what he is doing.Not just BS everyone .. or just :Vomit:, to every one other than your opinion !
     
  15. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    #15 Crashton, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 12:28 PM
    Oh boy, you have been gone for a while & things seemed go smoothly. You are back for a day & the BS starts. No need to reply I understand you don't care what other people think. Have a swell day. :Whistling:
     
  16. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    LOL.. I guess I could just sit back and let the 'Other BS' just roll with their crap. I think we all have ideas and should be able to post with out the TROLLS chiming in with nothing but BS . Yes I have been gone for a while because of just this thing.. SPSTFU ! Today is different, the short comments and avatars showing dumb answers should be called out.... show their experience and then Help the poster, dont show your ass and expect most to just sit tight and not respond. 'Merica !
     
  17. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    I don't understand this Scott, who is this aimed at and why?
     

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