R53 SMF prep double duty HPDE/TT

Discussion in 'Autocross' started by MrBlah, Jun 27, 2017.

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  1. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

    Jun 19, 2015
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    anyone prepped a car for SMF lately? I'm thinking about making my HPDE car do double duty and run SMF too

    I'm 1.5-2 seconds off the pace of the civics here local, most of them are on hoosiers or rival S and I'm on 225/40/15 r-s4's, I was running an STX JCW but my buddies are all moving to STH next year so I am free to do whatever, I should win stx this year I'm a good bit in the lead.

    I think the only change for my track car plans would be leaving in headliner, carpet up front and the door cards. I have behind the seats already all removed. this might make running the fire suppression lines a little harder but not impossible

    Tips on setup to compete with the civics? Not going to nationals, but locals are setup well. I'm thinking 949racing 15x9 up front with some 245 rival s 1.5's up front and 225's in back I dont think I can fit the 949racing 15x9 245's in the rear on an r53. maybe hoosiers half way through season.

    Power wise I've got a dominator cam, 17% pulley, 550cc injectors, precat removed header, catback, LSD. I'm planning tires first then maybe a rmw head but I"m not sure how much gain I will see when I dont get over 6k rpm in 2nd very often at all at most events
     
  2. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Dec 17, 2009
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    I'm way out of the game. So I am not a tech expert on the class rules anymore. It's been like 5 years since my last AutoX and 7 years since I was actively competing for local trophies and going to Pro-Solos.

    I was last running STX because I liked street tires aka I was lazy and didn't want to swap at events.

    SMF you get pretty free reign of what you can do to the car. For the weight of the R53 I would say at an AutoX more power isn't gonna win. More grip will get you into the fight.

    Tires are always the first place to start. Sounds like you have a bead on what the new hotness is in DOT slicks. I don't know if running staggered fitment front to back is gonna get you what you want though (i.e. 245 front & 225 rear). Even in FWD that tends to cause understeer. At an autox that will be your enemy. I would stick with an even wheel/tire combo. Especially since ypu have an LSD and that will make a TON of difference powering out of tight corners over open diff folks.

    Next place to look is the "Esses": springs/shocks/sways. You didn't mention what suspension mods you have. This will also be the rub for an HPDE vs AutoX vehicle. Since autox is fast weight transfer and generally running on cold (by HPDE standards) tires you want a fairly stiff setup. That same setup will be TOO stiff for an HPDE. So, if you are running both you will need some adjustable components or you will have to get to a compromise with fixed components.

    Alignment is another place to look. I don't know enough about the stock R53 alignment to tell you what needs tweaking but depending on your driving style you'll want the car to be neutral to just a hair of oversteer. In my R56 I had the front camber stock and the toe was moved to neutral. The rears were a tad extra negative camber and toe-in. This really improved the already impressive turn-in characteristics. I don't know if that will work for the R53 though.

    Last, look at any wieght reduction you can do. Seat removal was good, swapping for lighter weight race seats might be an option. Also consider a carbon fiber hood (bonnet).

    That's my $0.02 and I probably over charged.
     
  3. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

    Jun 19, 2015
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    I'm on KW V3's with swift 8kg/mm up front and 9kg/mm in rear, I took the big rear swaybar out as it was just too tail happy

    I like zero toe front & rear and as much -camber and +caster up front as I can get, and almost as much as I can get in the back. I do notice a little more wheelspin with this much camber but the LSD controls it well

    my understanding is interior from the front seats back can come out but the front has to stay in tact, that sucks as it removes weight from the wrong end, same with a lighter exhaust and battery all off the tail

    I run my JCW in STX, should take the club championship this year unless I run too many events in SMF and skip too many
     
  4. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Adjustable coils are the right call here. KWs are perfect. You can tweak them depending on your task (hpde vs autox). Have you been keeping set-up notes? If not, starting doing so. Figure out what settings work best for various applications/conditions. Find the balance between excessive bounce and minimal body roll. Do you lift your inside rear tire much (more than an inch or two) on hard corners?

    The big thing with the Civics that do so well is that they are light and have stiff suspension. So wieght transfer happens quickly and without much fuss. The 1989 DXs were the the hot setup when I was still competing.

    The R53 is behind the wieght curve by ~400 lbs (stock for stock) to start. Weight loss is going to be good no matter where it is. If it's mostly in the back it will change the driving dynamics and you will have to adjust driving style and suspension set up accordingly.

    As I mentioned before, getting a carbon fiber hood and swapping to lightweight race seats will help reduce the weight towards the front.
     
  5. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

    Jun 19, 2015
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    I have sparco seats. I do not get rear tire lift on this car, but it will oversteer like the other car that does get rear tire lift
     
  6. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    A little or a lot of oversteer? For road racing you don't want tire lift. For AutoX being close to tire lift (read: reduced contact patch) or just at it generally means you are dialed pretty close on the suspension.
     
  7. B.A.D.

    B.A.D. Club Coordinator

    Dec 6, 2009
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    So you are saying this might be to much tire lift?

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
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    Looks like the perfect amount to me. :arf: Or is your car getting ready to mark its territory on that cone?
     
  9. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Depends on the vehicle and I don't have scale so I can't tell how far up that actually is. For my R56 I was in the AutoX sweet spot on stiffness if I got just a hair of daylight (about 1/2 inch) under the inside rear. Some FWD cars you want no daylight and others it doesn't matter. My MkV GTI always had 2 inches or so and it was fine.
     
  10. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    I was curious so I was looking at vids on YouTube of FiSTs AutoX'ing. HS/GS cars seem to lift like you are showing in the pic. The one SMF car I saw lifted but not as much or as often. Hard to tell since 90% of the videos are in-car which are not helpful for looking at chassis dynamics.
     
  11. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Dec 17, 2009
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  12. B.A.D.

    B.A.D. Club Coordinator

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    I'm trying to figure out a way to capture the lift with my camera set up. I was fortunate that a friend captured the above picture at our last event. He actually got a couple more from that day as well.


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  13. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

    Jun 19, 2015
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    I think I'm gonna order 15x10 wheels for the front and run some 245's or 275's and 15x8's in the back with 225's or 245's and poke them right out of the fenders like the civics do

    I'll just cut the fenders, if I cannot get enough to stop rubbing I suppose I could put spacers between camber plate/rear shock mount and the body and get a little more there, the car is already so low on 15" tires I drag all over
     
  14. JMC40

    JMC40 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2010
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    O...H...!!


    I'll sell you my 'Stang...problem solved!!
     
  15. B.A.D.

    B.A.D. Club Coordinator

    Dec 6, 2009
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    It seems like it has already spent more time at my house than yours since you bought it


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  16. JMC40

    JMC40 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2010
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    O...H...!!


    True
     
  17. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

    Jun 19, 2015
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    on the track it looks like my rear is about to lift but it doesnt quite do it

    [​IMG]
     

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