I've had my Red Stuff pads on since last year's MOTD...no problems so far, so they will stay on til something arises, but will keep an eye on them in the meantime.
I know I bedded the pads correctly, this is not my first rodeo. Just search the web and you will see other are having the same problem.
That is really odd. We use EBC pads on every brake job we do here at the shop and that is a couple every week. I've never seen that happen. Where you running it hard when they came apart? Looks like that one pad was worn down a bit. Be careful with the Carbotechs as the rivets will dig into the rotor if you let it get too thin.
Looking at those pictures closer I also wonder if the pad being so thin contributed to the pad release. Also wonder how hot the pads were. Everyone has their own opinion on brakes. I would not run a pad that thin, especially down in God's country. Wondering how much pad was their before the start of doing runs. Way is correct if those were carbotech's they'd have been into the rotors. Dave no one is accusing you of not knowing how to rodeo. We all are just wondering out loud how this happened.????
The photo is of my pads - I did not take my car to MOTD this year. Those pads and rotors went on 2 years ago and have been through 2 trips to MOTD. However not this year. I was waiting on the pads from Brakeman which came after the MOTD so I replaced them when I got back. They were fine for the two previous MOTD runs and daily driving, however I delayed replacing them in January because I typically replace them before MOTD. The point is - check your brakes and stay safe.
Just to jump in, EBC has a disclaimer that REDS are NOT for TRACK use. Of course then the question is how far can you push them. My track days are quite mild compared to others and quite infrequent (1-2) times per year. Based on what I've read and been told this is indeed a very strange situation. To make it worse, I have a full set of EBC Reds ready to install. I thinking I'll go ahead on with the project and just pay attention.... Dave. O, sorry you've had this problem and appreciate the heads up so we know of a potential problem. Kent
back in the early 90s, ferodo had the same problem with their motocycle brake pads i had a set come apart resulting in a locked front wheel, fortunately it was at the end of a very fast run on hwy 1 in california as i pulled up to a gas pump ... i still get the shakes thinking about what could have happened if they had failed 15 minutes earlier scott
Good point Kent.... I wonder if portions of the Dragon are similar or approaching track conditions... I have street driven EBC red's with no issues.... Love them...
The ones I had put up just fine with aggressive regular track use. None-the-less the news is a bit disturbing. While I no longer have a MINI I was considering EBC Yellows for the Mustang... Perhaps I'll give Hawk another shake instead.
There's just soooo many variables at play here.... I agree, they should NEVER separate... NO MATTER WHAT. But, when trying to diagnose a failure and figure out what conditions, if any, may have contributed, and whether that means you're more or less likely to see a similar failure on your own car, it's pretty maddening. Fact: The Dragon eats R53 front pads. I've seen OEM front pads literally BURN, with smoke billowing out from the wheel wells. Is that a significant contributing factor? Perhaps. Carbotech rivets their pads for a reason... I don't know what their testing showed, with various bonding techniques, etc. I know I heated my R56 front Red Stuffs up enough to make a nice odor on Wayah and some other hard descents on Friday, but no smoke.
As someone who at one time raced I'll give my 2 cents here. On a race car we looked at our brakes before every race & once or twice while at the track. Lots of folks only look at theirs when a nanny light says to. Running hard on the dragon requires more attention be paid. Pads & fluid. If your peddle is getting long it is time for pads. Better yet change them out if there is any question they are up to snuff. I know many who do that, but many don't. Error on the side of safety with brakes. Brakes are cheap cars & injuries are not. Yes if driven hard the dragon can & will overheat brakes. On track you brake hard, but have straights where your brakes can cool. Not on the dragon with hard braking one turn after another for 11 miles. I'd bet many folks do not wait for their brakes to cool before doing a return run. That is a recipe for cooked brakes. For me the dragon is a momentum drive. Not a lot of hard braking. I use the transmission & engine braking a lot. If equipped with an autobox the brakes work even harder. Back on topic, separating red stuffs.
See above, the pictures were of my friends pads. (He posted above) If you paid attention I said I have had 2 sets of EBC REDS fail. Those pads in the pictures are not RED. I just used his picture as an example of what it looks like when they fail. I would never let my pads get that thin I have had REDS on my car for two years and have had to replace both sets before they were even half used. I do not track or auto cross my car and I have a 6 mile commute to work. I know how to drive and don't ride the brakes. I also had a another friends pads fail and they had the Greens. EBC replaced his pads and rotors because the EBC Greens pad failure destroyed his rotors also. I just want people to be safe and check your EBC pads for possible failure. I for one will not be recommending ANY EBC BRAKES TO ANYONE! Just do a google search for EBC brake failure and see for yourself. I know how to inspect and change my own brakes and will be doing the Carbotech pads and new rotor install later this Summer. I also don't care if they have rivets because I don't try to get every last mile out of set of pads. I change them at 1/4 left just like I change my oil @ every 3k. A car is only as valuable as you maintain it not wax it, but I do both very well.:lol:
Interesting picture. Isolated case or not remains to be seen. I've been using Zimmerman rotors and Red Stuff for a couple of years now. Track days and normal hard driving. No issues other than they have to be replaced every year with the Motul brake fluid.
Firstly Carbotech bonds and rivets there pads!!! They do both to add in a safety factor, by doing both if the bonding or rivet fail your pad will not delaminate. Second you can have your pads specced with brass rivets that will not hurt rotor if one is to use them that far. As for ebc the are a motor cycle brake company that wants a market share in autos. The have a huge marketing buget and people fall vitum to it. EBC use very simoler compounds in both applications which I find unsettling.