Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Rear Sway Bar?

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by M^Cubed, Mar 31, 2010.

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  1. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
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    I've been pondering a beefier rear sway bar for a while now, but the options out there are a bit confusing. I've narrowed it down to a couple that I have based on design + materials.

    Of all the more Mini Specific tuners, the TSW bar is very nice in that it uses a quiet and self lubricated bushing, but they do not specify what material the bar is or how the ends are finished.

    The other bar of interest is the Hotchkis "H-Sport" bar. I do like that they use spring steel and give you an option of going hollow or solid. The ends are also forged instead of welded on like many others. They offer 3 sizes with multiple holes for lots of variation, but as TSW states "Anything over 19mm is overkill" and 2 of their 3 are VERY large.

    I've driven a R53 with a large solid bar before (I believe it is 25+MM) - the car had coilovers and the alignment was all setup as a HPDE car. I thought the car was very snappy and predictable. I did not get to highway speeds, so I don't know how twitchy it is there, but the owner states that it has no awkward tendencies.

    Currently - my car feels just the slightest bit "lazy" in steering response even with 2 degrees camber up front and 1.5 rear 0 toe front and the slightest bit in at the back. I also have poly bushings at the FCAB. I also think that the rear end has a touch of roll and it I can still feel it push at the front end little bit under power.

    Smooth modulation on the throttle should have the car going from neutral to a bit of rotation and not understeer to snap oversteer.

    Hopefully a RSB will help get me in the right direction, I know it is not a miracle worker, but I do have most everything else in place besides adjustable endlings and a x-brace.
     
  2. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
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    Larger RSB = Goodness!:Thumbsup:
     
  3. jeff@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

    May 4, 2009
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    The TSW 19mm bar is one continuous piece (no welding) with extra large urethane mounts and brackets that do not squeak. KW Automotive USA makes it for TSW as a private label to our specifications in CA. The ends are flattened with two adjustment holes and it is powdercoated bright black. Like our springs we chose black to match the OEM color for dealers who try to void the warranty on the MINI for aftermarket parts. It is made of premium material - sorry that part is proprietary.

    [email protected]
     
  4. TGS91

    TGS91 New Member

    May 8, 2009
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    One of the first things I addressed on my MINI modquest was the suspension. The RSB is huge. I was not as educated on aftermarket options as I am now so I chose the MINI JCW Bar (19mm). There is a immediate difference and makes taking hard corners a absolute pleasure

    TSW makes fine products (Have their springs and rotors) and I have the Hothckis rear camber links they seem to be very well built as well.

    Think you would be well served with either
     
  5. 00zero

    00zero New Member

    Oct 2, 2009
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    I have the TSW 19mm RSB

    The install was easy.

    It has made it through the winter without squeaks.

    The changes it made were wonderful, even manageable at a medium setting through the snowy winter.

    -Jonathan
     
  6. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    With your current setup, especially the camber plates, you do not need anything larger than the 19mm bar.

    As to which one, there are some very nice ones out there and I don't think you will go wrong with any of them. I would also consider getting new end links and lower rear control arms.
     
  7. istara

    istara New Member

    May 21, 2009
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    I have the 25+mm hollow h-sport bar, currently set at the softest setting. I get good feedback on the car at autox for managing to make it feel less like fwd, but that is a factor of a lot more than just the RSB (much more aggressive front camber and almost none in the rear helps). Is this just for the street? If it is, the larger ones may in fact be a little overkill. I like it when the back end comes around on the skid pad, but on the street it's not as recommended.
     
  8. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
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    Jeff - thank you. TSW customer service is one of the main things I really enjoy about their company and why I am leaning towards that bar. I need to save up so I can get the solid motor mount + RSB + x-brace :devil:

    With the two hole bar - do you consider it 3 position? Soft being the first two, medium being one side first other side second and 3 being the outer holes?

    Thanks - Cubey
     
  9. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    I had the 22mm H-Sport, also set on the softest setting - on my '03 JCW and that gave me very neutral handling and cured the one real problem I was having on track - picking up the inside front wheel and smoking it out of slow speed corners.

    I tried it on one stiffer setting and didn't notice any great benefit, but the ride on the street got harsh and noisey. Setting it back soft proved to be the best all around setting.

    I'm installing it on my Clubby this weekend, I'll let you all know how that feels too. The H-sport has greaseable bushings, I only noticed noise on extremely cold winter days, the rest of the time it was quiet.

    As to painting it black so as not to alert the dealer, since the stock bar is about the size of a wire coat hanger, it's pretty noticeable no matter who's bar you use or what color it's painted! :D
     
  10. Dwight

    Dwight Racing with the Gods
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    Jul 7, 2009
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    I went with the H-Sport 25.5mm RSB as well and the soft setting, too. The main reason I chose it was the adjust-ability and that it's the only one with zerk fittings on the urathane bushings. The RSB combined with NM's 30mm lowering springs and H-Sport's rear camber arms set to 1.8deg. negative camber instead of the OEM -1.5deg has given me the dead neutral handling I wanted for my daily driver. I don't track/auto-x, but if I feel the need to bring the rear end around I simply lift the throttle a little. Took some careful thought and some knowledgeable help to get it right, but I be happy with the result. :D
     
  11. Way Motor Works

    Way Motor Works New Member

    May 4, 2009
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  12. jeff@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

    May 4, 2009
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    We used H-Sport as well until we made our own 19mm rear sway bar with several improvements. It is manufactured by KW as a TSW private label to our specifications specifically for the MINI.
     
  13. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

    Jun 6, 2009
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    I agree with the others that you do not need larger than 19mm with front camber plates. I had a Hotchkis 25.5 hollow (about the same as 23 solid) with the -2.2 front camber and even on the softest setting it was a little too much for the street, however good for Auto-X. For the street, I now have JCW suspension, Alta 19mm bar set on the middle setting, with -2.0 front and -1.5 rear camber. I started on the softest setting than moved to the middle for the street. I plan to use the stiffest setting for Auto-X.
    I purchased an Alta bar because it was only $100 and then I added Hotchkis zerk bushings. I would suggest either the Hotchkis or TSW bar.
     
  14. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
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    How are the bushings lubricated in the TSW setup? Is it an apply and forget it type thing or is there no lubrication needed at all?
     
  15. jeff@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

    May 4, 2009
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    We use custom made bushings that have a teflon mesh material imbedded into the inside of the bushings. The bushings and brackets are much larger than stock, never squeak and never need lubrication. KW liked our bushing design so much, they changed all of their sway bar bushings to the imbedded teflon material.

    [email protected]
     
  16. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    #16 Jason Montague, Apr 10, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
    :Thumbsup:I have the Sport Suspension(08 R56) with the 18mm RSB/heavier springs and shocks.The ride/performance was okay. Then I got OZ Allegerettes (14lbs each) and nonrunflat tires and together dropped ~18lbs/wheel(72lbs total) of unsprung weight. What a difference this made in ride/performance. Now the only addition that I still need to make is Ireland Engineering front fixed camber plates and a proper alignment. I guess that there are as many different approaches to the correct suspension as there are Mini drivers. All of us Mini drivers having different perceptions of how our Minis are handling/performing for each of us. I love it:NO SINGLE ONE CORRECT ANSWER. We can opinionate:idea: until our heart's content. :cornut: Jason PS I also have front AND rear strut tower braces.I got the front one and didn't notice much difference at all. So I thought; 'in for a dime,in for a dollar', and I installed a rear strut tower brace. Wow!,entire car much tighter. I'm sure that the under car X frame single brace performs the same or better than my 'top of the car' dual braces. This is just the way that I did it.
     
  17. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Funny as the rear "strut" bar is not attached anywhere near the actual strut tops.
     
  18. Boxcars

    Boxcars New Member

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  19. Lilredscoot

    Lilredscoot New Member

    May 12, 2009
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    I have the H-Sport competition sway bar set on the middle. Big improvement from stock. Me likey!!!!
     
  20. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    H Sport RSB

    :cornut: H Sport RSB recommended by Motoring File also. Maybe I need to get one of those.:Thumbsup: Jason
     

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