I've had a problem with my drive axle popping out from the tranny. Each time it was put back in and within a day it popped out again. A lot of people have looked at the problem and hypothesized why it's been happening. I replaced the circlip already so that wasn't it. I replaced the drive shaft too, though it's gotten pretty beat up from the most recent popping out occurrences. So it's time to replace that. Some people thought the OBX LSD was to blame. So having had enough flatbeds for the year, I had a shop pull the tranny to have a look inside, but before getting there, I found out that of the 3 transaxle mounting points, the two lower ones were shot. The top one closest to the firewall was stripped and the forwardmost one was actually missing. Considering the tranny was only held on by the top mount, would that be the most plausible reason for the axle popping out? I'm debating about going all the way and getting a new LSD, since I have the tranny already out. Any thoughts? I'm also considering an OS Giken. I've read that for FWD applications it should be set to 1.1 though I've read others prefer 1.5. Not sure which is correct. One last thing, I've read that the oil in the LSD needs to be changed after the first few thousand miles. How does one go about changing the oil. Does the tranny need to be pulled??? Thanks Richard
Funny you should ask... just finished an article on LSDs for MC2.... There are options out there at every price point. The OS Gilken is the cat's meow, but it's not cheap either. The 1-way or 1.5-way setting, the various pre-load variations and the like are really tuning tools for racers, and for street apps you'd be fine with "off the shelf" configuration. Matt
I would get with Jan about the OS Giken since that is the one that he is selling and uses for his builds. It is too pricey for me though. FWIW, our Quaife has been great and unless you are going to track your car, I think the Giken is overkill.
Thanks Matt. I'm not really sure which is the off the shelf for the Giken. With my special "friend" discount, the price difference between a Quaife and a Giken is only a few hundred dollars and from what I've heard, those with the Gikens love it to death. I sent him a PM on the sewing site but haven't heard back yet. I know he's actually more in love with the Cusco's which for me won't work..too noisy and too much maintenance required. Other than the oil change I recently read about the Gikens don't need much maintenance either like the Quaife's..although being gear driven seems the most "set it and forget" of the two. One thing I was really interested in with the Giken's is that they say it totally eliminates torque steer. Can you comment how that affects the Quaife?? I went from factory LSD to OBX LSD..and now I might stick with it, though more than likely will put in a different one since everything is already out and open..and really don't want to take any chances of still having the same or similar issue after everything is put back.
The OBX is a helical LSD like the Quaife, just a lot cheaper. Some who've taken it apart have found some cracked pre-load bevel washers in it, but it's basically a Quaife knock off. The Cusco is a more traditional clutch type unit. The OS has a lot more adjustability, but is still a clutch unit. So, the helicals have the plus of being able to put MORE torque to the wheel with the traction, but have the minus of losing all drive if you lift a wheel. The clutch based LSDs can't do the trick with the torque like the helicals, but if you lift a front wheel, you still get torque via the wheel on the ground. The OS unit uses more plates and because of this, effectively become a locker under a lot of load. This helps for the track for sure. They also claim the increase in friction surface area decreases wear and reduces overall internal heating. If I were in your shoes, I'd have a really good shop look at why you're loosing your axle, as opposed to replacing an expensive part in the hope that fixes it. But now that things are apart, you may be too far down that road to turn back now. Another thing I notices, was that LSD manufacturers come and go from favor. First it was the Phantom Grip Locking Unit. Then the Quaife, then the Cusco, now the OS is the queen of the prom. In reality, they are all good units. For racers they may be good for a small (read on the order of 1) percentage difference in lap times. If you're a racer, this may matter. For the street, I'm not too sure it does. OMFG!!! I just went to Jans site to see if he's still pushing the Quaife, and he's finally upgrading it! Now there are no LSDs on it at all though! No LSD can eliminate torque steer. It's an effect of geometry as well as drive methods. The OS by locking up may act differently than others that don't go to full lock, but that's not the elimination of torque steer. Matt
My mistake, It was Cusco I was thinking of. We have had the Quaife for almost three years and it requires zero maintenance. I don't feel torque steer in the MINI, but I don't drive it a lot and I'm used to my Jetta which torque steers a lot.
One thing that is "off the shelf" for the OS is softer pre-load springs. This makes the transition to lock slower and softer. Good for street, racers would probably make the transition faster. Matt
Jan is listed as an authorized OS Giken dealer however on their website...so you're not mistaken either, lol. Actually that's where my MINI is (what I deem to be a really good independent MINI shop)...they spent over 2 hours making sure everything was proper when putting the axle back in the first time. Instead of just popping it back in, they measured the depth of the axles inside the tranny, they used a grinder to clean up the splines, they walked me through the potential causes. The axle lasted twice as long as anything previous but it still came out. Both times the axle came out, I had gone full lock on the steering wheel, and shortly after that it popped out. With the transaxle mounts pivoting on one thread, I could see how this might happen I think. When I brought the car back...they spent several days trying to get the axle to come out, they researched the issue, talked to other shops, and then we talked about the potential issues. What it came down to was that the tranny needed to be pulled, and then that's when nobody could have guessed that the mounts were compromised. I've been living with this axle problem for the past year. It only got worse in the past few months where the axle would fully pop out making my car undriveable. In the past, the axle would come out and go back in so I could still drive it. With my mechanic not being able to find the solution, I was getting quite frustrated. So yeah, I'm too far down the road to go back. The tranny is on my shop floor waiting for one of my friends to pick it up who offered to rebuild it if necessary. At the very least he will install the Quaife for me although the OBX may be fine now..who knows? I'm already out $2000, maybe I should spend the extra grand for the Quaife in case the problem really is a combination of the OBX and the Tranny mounts. Thanks so much for the LSD info Matt. re: Site hahah yeah I noticed that last night...much better, lol. Richard
well I will stretch my neck out and say.... looking at the pictures and the description of how it happened your differential is not to blame. The trans mount damaged as it is allowing too much engine transmission movement causing the axle to expel, Fix the mount get a new axle and I think you would be good to go?
How are your ball joints? I had some weird feelings during full lock turns and found the ball joints were "toast" This could cause excessive movement and let the axle pop out
Thanks. Yeah the mount is definitely getting fixed and a new axle is being purchased as well. I will report back my findings about the tranny. It's already out, so it won't take much effort to crack it open and look inside for anything suspicious. I was told by the mechanic that everything is tight and in good condition. I felt nothing unusual during the turns.
I'm with Nitro on this one... hanging that sucker from the top mount only isn't going to keep it in one place.
Put in the mounts, check the trans, get the new axle and you should be good. I can't believe you didn't feel the mounts let go. Should have made one hell of a noise if it fell out. Good Luck
Well apparently the bolts were all there, and it wasn't visible from the top. We pushed and pulled on everything and everything seemed solid. Maybe it was just the weight of the tranny that kept us from seeing that it wasn't tight. That sucker is pretty heavy. I know I tore up my engine mount about a year ago, and that's when I had them replaced. I also had two clutch jobs done that were related to that. After all that was behind me, there were no further symptoms that could been seen or heard. I guess the hole happened at that time..but I was never aware of it until the new shop showed me. I will update you guys soon. Thanks!
You have found things that were bad... the mounts. And they hold the engine/transaxle where it's supposed to be. I'm with Nitro and Blimey on this one. Fix all the things that suspens the engine, and get an axle and you SHOULD be good. It popping out at steering lock makes sense, as that the most exreme position. I'm better that less engine movement will allow the axle to come out when the steering is at that position than when driving straight. If you want to throw money at the problem to cover all bases while it's apart, that's your call. But I'm not sure it's nessasary. I don't know it's not, either! If you do the mounts, do them all, both sides of the engine. If one side is shot and the engine has been moving, it's been stressing the other side as well. Also, I think that having all the parts nice and new will snug things up a bit, and keep the engine rotation when under power and engine braking moving around the intended rotational axis. Matt
Good call on checking the other engine mount. I will have a look at that as well. The last two times the axle fully popped out: I was backing out of a parking space at my shop and had to do full wheel lock in reverse. As soon as I got out and straightened it out, it went forward about a foot, then POP..it was dead in the water. The more recent time, I was pulling out of my shop onto the road way. 90 degree turn. But the engine was cold..it was well past 10:30pm on a cold 50 deg night. I didn't let the engine warm up enough, and as I pulled out, the engine lurched about 3 times as I was turning on to the roadway, then the idle smoothed out, and I drove for about 300 feet while going straight, and all of a sudden..I was coasting. To me both of those cases sound like if the mount was being torqued, that would be the result, lol. Thanks Matt and everyone else! Richard
The clue is the splines at the end of the axle. You can see that the axle walked and then rode a time at the outer end. Not really the best support for the torque applied to it. Looking at the pictures I can not see any gear damage? Tugging and pulling to determine if mounts are disrupted does not always work as you concluded. A level or protractor along with a floor jack works better to determine engine/trans position and movement limitations?
Putting my finger inside the tranny, the teeth feel sharp. I don't notice any rounding, but then again, it was my first time doing it so not sure. I compared both sides..the side where the axle keeps coming out and the passenger side where I don't have this issue, and both sides seemed nearly the same. The shop mechanic said he could MAYBE feel a slight rounding but even that was more of a "I think I feel".
Hey Richard, shove the new inner CV in the diff without the c-clip and rotate back and forth to check for play. If there's play then the OBX output is worn too=replace with a new OBX output-or new OBX diff for the cost($400)-or upgrade your diff if you've got the cash. Jeremy