SCCA STX 2012 - R56 Class Prep / Introduction

Discussion in 'Autocross' started by GreyLens, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    I posted on the other thread by race2win. Here's that post and his response:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GreyLens
    race2win,

    Thanks for this thread. I'm a dedicated MINI JCW pilot starting my third year of autox. I stumbled across your thread looking for ideas. I had a "STX Prep" thread on Motoring Alliance last year for MINI drivers that several folks found useful. I started one a couple of weeks ago for 2012 referencing your thread. Here's mine:

    http://www.motoringalliance.com/foru...tml#post113110

    Though I'm not really planning on going to Nationals this year I like to think I will one day. Not a single MINI was entered in STX at the Nationals and the R56 is certainly not an ideal platform for STX. So I really like your effort to take the "underdog" E30 as far as you can go. Way cool! Much of your discussion and ideas are applicable to our little beasts so I thought I'd just let you know some of us are paying attention.

    Good work."

    race2win's response: some encouraging words for the JCW....

    Welcome, thanks so much for the kind words! A couple of minor corrections though... As much as I would love to say I have won a National Championship, it's not so. I have won National Tours & Pro Solos, the traveling series that goes around the country all year, but believe it or not in my 20 year career I have never made the trip to the National Championships. I also wanted to point out that there was an E30 325i just like mine at Lincoln last year, it was driven by Doug Hitchcock, a member here (110stx).

    I must say that I apologize...I left out the Mini S on my list of potential "cars-to-have" for STX. Definitely do NOT give up hope on the Mini's potential to succeed, that car has all the right ingredients to do VERY well! This is what makes STX so great...the vast array of different cars that have a chance at winning. The Mini is most likely going to be a course-dependant car like the E30, they are light & pretty narrow, & they turn very well.

    Fat Cat Motorsports, the Miata Bilstien Guru, just finished building the suspension for a Mini JCW in STX that will be competing locally. So it appears my region may be one to watch this year as we will have many different top-prepped cars such as my E30, an E36 325is, RX8, Mazdaspeed3, Boss Mustang, & a couple WRX's ...& those are just the cars I know of! Our first event is Feb 19th at the Oakland Colesium, even though my suspension will most likely not be done yet, I cannot wait!

    It is worth following his thread I posted in the beginning of this thread.
     
  2. FredR53

    FredR53 New Member

    Oct 8, 2010
    21
    0
    0
    crappy
    SA, TX
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Ordered my axle, should be here on the 23rd try and get it in on saturday before the event. Hopefully I'll make it.
     
  3. Way Motor Works

    Way Motor Works New Member

    May 4, 2009
    1,169
    205
    0
    MINI Tuner
    Atlanta
    Ratings:
    +205 / 0 / -0
    CarlB I'd suggest saving your money up for the OS Giken diff, that will be the best addition to the mods you currently have.
    Also going to a bigger rear sway bar, and more front camber.
     
  4. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    I have to agree with the differential as a priority. When planning a suspension upgrade and an LSD install I got advice from the majority of the folks in the Spokes and SASCA autox clubs to invest in the LSD first. I also agree with that. My three biggest priorities were LSD first, wheels and tires second, suspension third, and the AccessPort third (for the track if you stay in STX). It worked out for me.
     
  5. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    #25 GreyLens, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
    Wheels and Tires for the R56 in STX Autox

    The "Big Three" investments/mods for good performance in autox, IMHO, are Limited Slip Differential, Suspension and WHEELS and TIRES. Here's some thoughts and questions:

    The narrow wheel wells of MINI's and the 4x100 stud configuration results, arguably, in one of the main limitation of the R56. Since flaring is not allowed the max configuration of wheel and tires I've seen used in STX is an 8" wheel running 235x40x17 RE-11's. It resulted in minor rubbing of the well liner but performed well. The wheels were a bit heavy. Most of the really light, NON CUSTOM racing wheels with a 4x100 stud pattern come in 7" widths with a few available in 7.5". If the MINI had a 5 stud wheel the selection for wider wheels would be much broader. Unfortunately, it appears that the 5 stud wheel on the countryman is not swappable with the R56 and that would not comply with STX rules anyway.

    I spent some time last year trying to come up with a wider wheel and tire set. After much searching I read an article in Grassroots Motorsports Magazine that reported on a fairly rigorous test of various widths of wheels and tires in autox on a project MX-5 Mitata. Their results strongly indicated that cramming additional rubber and metal under that wheel well had little, if any, effect on real performance in autox. They believe the additional wheel and tire width would help much more on the track but little on the parking lot.

    NEW RUBBER:
    Another factor that I think is much more important is the freshness of the rubber. Heat cycling of tires deadens performance over time. I've run my autox events on my daily driver wheels and tires. After about 8 or 9 months of daily driving and two autox events a month the tires get fairly hard and are worn at the edges despite an aggressive camber set up. (More on this in a later post.)

    Many ST drivers are buying a separate set of wheels and tires to dedicate to autox events. For big events like Tours and the Nationals they get new shaved tires just before the event. Part of the reason for going to the ST classes, for many folks, is/was the prospect of not having to mess with changing wheels/tires at the event like the r-comp folks do for stock and street prepared classes do. But, bottom line, fresh rubber works better than old rubber. Surprise.

    So, given the above, this year I'm considering the following...

    TIRES: STX rules allow for up to 265mm for 2WD cars. Can't happen in the R56. I've been running 215x45x17, R-S3's and Star Specs over the last 2 years. If anyone made a good 225x40x17 it would likely fit nicely but the 225x45x17's are a bit too tall/wide for the R56...especially if run on an 8" or 8.5" wheel like it should be.

    So, for now, I'm planning on getting a dedicated set of R-S3's in 215x45x17's...thoughts??

    WHEELS: STX rules for the R56 allow for 9.0" width wheels. Those are hard to find in 4x100, light wheels without spending real big bucks for custom. So, I'm thinking of getting a second wheel set of 17x7". I currently run Kosei K1 TS.

    I'm considering OZ Allegerita HLT's in 17x7". They're a little lighter than the Kosei's and a very different look. I'll play around with the look for daily driver and autox. I'll put TPMS in the daily driver set once I decide.

    PROCESS:
    Another notion is that I might go ahead and change wheels/tires the night before an event and drive them to the event so I don't have to mess with that during our very hot days. I'm the worker chief and often don't have much time at the end of the day to change back at the site. Also, I'm old and can't handle the heat that well.

    Driving to and from the event on my dedicated tires certainly increases the heat cycles but I plan on buying a new set each year anyway. The street tires are half the cost of r-comps and I won't likely need two sets of tires in the year like I might with r-comps.

    I'd love any input...
     
  6. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
    Supporting Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    1,637
    398
    83
    Glorified spreadsheet jockey.
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +413 / 0 / -0
    Good call on the tires. R-S3s will serve you well in STX and in the summer heat.

    While I do advocate less unsprung weight on a car the effect is often over exaggerated. In the case of typical stock rims you go from 24lbs to 15lbs thats a total unsprung weight reduction of 36lbs. That will be noticeable.

    In your case you are talking about going from a 15lb wheel (pretty damned light for a 17x7!) to a 14.2lb wheel. So you are saving 3.2lbs of total unsprung wieght for how much extra cost? I'm going to venture that you won't notice the difference at all. My advice is to get a set of cool looking DD rims (whatever you like) and put your TPMS sensors on those and keep the R-S3s on your Kosei's without TPMS.



    That is exactly what I did for track days. I had my track rims (17lb 17x7s) with my R-S3s and I mounted them the day before and put my street wheels/tires in the back. Drove to the track on the track tires and if I was not too tired I swap back to the street set-up. Otherwise, I just drove home on the track tires and swap them the next day.

    The heat cycles your tires experience on the freeway really aren't enough to do much to your R-S3s as far as hardening them.
     
  7. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

    May 4, 2009
    252
    54
    28
    Ratings:
    +54 / 0 / -0
    Thank you for the advice. I am not sure I agree, but I would like to discuss this. Hopefully we will all learn from the discussion. First my car has a MINI LSD. The 06 JCWs came with a Torsen type LSD. I have not driven a car with an OS Giken differential but I understand it is a modified Salisbury clutch style differential. The difference between most Salisbury differentials and the OS Giken is that there are a lot more clutch disk and the spring that holds the clutches together is not as stiff. The effect of this change from the conventional design is that the differential unlocks easier, but still locks up good on the gas. The complaint about clutch or Salisbury type of differential has been that it induces some understeer going into the corner until it unlocks. The complaint about the Torsen has been that if a drive wheel gets unloaded it acts like an open differential. I believe both conditions can be compensated for with other suspension settings. My current spring set up uses a stock front bar, a 19 MM rear bar adjusted stiff, and 400 LBS springs. With this setup I can get oversteer with a light lift. I like the way it handles, and it is very easy to drive. However the lot the SCCA uses has some elevation change and a lot of the courses have off camber sweepers. In those situations I get enough weight transfer to loose traction on the inside wheel. A lot of this is my bad driving. I know how to compensate, but knowing and doing it all the time are two different things. Entering off camber turns I can get the rear wheel off the ground as well. To keep the wheels on the ground, I was thinking of adding a bigger front bar. To keep the balance I was going to stiffen the rear. I am thinking of stiffening the rear with springs because the existing bar will already get a wheel up. I am using fixed camber plates because I was trying to maintain some capability to drive on the street. I do agree that more front camber would help, especially with the 225 45-16 Toyo’s. I do not think my wheels are wide enough and Toyo tires have soft sidewalls. When I was using 215-45-17 Dunlop star specs I had good tire temperatures, but suspect more camber would help.
     
  8. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    I agree on all points except I'm still concerned about the daily driver heat cycles. You're right, the heat cycles aren't nearly as hot but it is just so many of them. Nonetheless, I think you're probably right on that point as well.

    I went back and read the GRM article on wheels and tires again...will post their findings more accurately...I didn't have their whole story right.
     
  9. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    Lightweight Wheels and Wider Tires

    The GRM article on the subject I mentioned before is in the June 2011 issue page 123. Here were their conclusions:

    1. WHEELS: They tested 17x9" wheels weighing 19.6 lbs vs 15.9 lbs. The test was carefully done using spacers for exact offsets, same tires (Star Specs), etc. They also tested HP on the dyno and times on the Tire Rack track. Results were 0.1 sec difference in favor of the lighter wheel. Effect on measured HP at the wheels was insignificant. Note: They did not test effects of different wheel widths with given tires.

    2. TIRES: They tested 255/40/17 Star Specs against 245/40/17 Star Specs on the same wheels. The results were 0.5 secs difference in favor of the NARROWER and SHORTER tire..the 245/40/17. That is significant. The difference was concluded to be the better behavior of the shorter sidewalls. Note: they didn't test the wider tire with a slightly wider wheel.

    My conclusion: Yep, this stuff is complicated. Without going through the whole logic I'm just going to stick with 215/45/17's on a 17x7" wheel. I'm also not going to invest in a "rain tire" set up. I'll have the dedicated autox tire set up and a street set up. I'll probably still get the different wheels (OZ's) for the looks. Which ever ones I use on the street will get the TPMS.
     
  10. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    CarlB,

    I got my OS Giken through WERKIN MINI here in SA. If you look back through the "Today's Job" thread by "k-huevo"

    http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/cooper-s/5621-todays-job-12.html

    you'll see many particulars on both the OS Giken install and the Torsen install that k-huevo has done for various MINI's here. IMHO, the Giken is pricey and works as advertised. The Torsen is cheaper and works as advertised. You've also identified the core issue with each. I don't really feel the understeer issue with the Giken but, probably because I'm not sophisticated enough to tell.

    Your general set up of springs and sway bar seem reasonable. I think you're likely right about the wheel width and the tire width but only a good experiment will tell. In the end the delta would likely be small anyway. But, that's why I'm sticking with the 215's on my 17" wheels. I have to run 17's because of the big JCW brakes.

    My only thought about your suspension set up right now is the amount of camber. I have a set of IE fixed camber plates on the shelf and opted instead to install the new Vorshlag variable camber plates and am running a -2.5 degrees camber in front and -1.7 in rear. That made a very big difference in times for me.

    I'm going to do a separate post on my suspension set up soon. I've also gone from heavier springs to a bit lighter for this year for several reasons and done some other things for set up. We'll see how it fares this season. I'm still searching for that illusive balance between daily drivability and autox performance.
     
  11. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
    Supporting Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    1,637
    398
    83
    Glorified spreadsheet jockey.
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +413 / 0 / -0
    Grey, please link the suspension post in here once you make it. That will be very helpful.

    This will be quick as I'm posting from my phone but the freeway heat cycles I was talking about were just for the trip to the track/autox site and back. If you are DD'ing them in the heat they will get noticably harder past about half tread (its a blended compound that how they get the 140 treadwear on such a sticky tire.)

    I have a longer post I can respond with later.
     
  12. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    I'm going to post the suspension stuff in this thread.

    Yes, it's the DD issue for me. I'm glad you agree that the driving to and from events won't matter much for a dedicated set. That was my thought but I've not talked to anyone about that issue. I didn't know about the blended compound. That explains it...I still have enough tread to use them awhile but they're much harder now. I bought them new a year ago and they were great till about October/November. I put a lot of miles on them. I'm going to run our first event of 2012 on them (29 Jan) but plan to have a new set by middle of Feb. The nice thing about STX is the street tires are about half price of A6's, less hassle on drive day, and you don't need to bother flipping the tires on the wheels a couple of times during the season to get max wear out of them. Less trips to the tire store.

    I'm only going to a couple of tour events this year, and/or the nationals, which are about 3 and 5 and 10 hour drives, respectively. If I do, I wonder if I should bother to haul the event wheels and tires and change at the event to save those miles on them? That's easily done in the MINI. It seems like I should...but?

    Then, again, if I were to go to the nationals I might buy a new set while I'm there anyway. Then...

    "To Shave or Not To Shave, that is the question."
     
  13. rum4

    rum4 Club Coordinator
    Lifetime Supporter

    Aug 17, 2011
    4,568
    1,475
    0
    SC
    Ratings:
    +1,478 / 0 / -0
    Well this is interesting. I have never done any autox ing but I am going to follow yall in this thread. Good luck to yall
     
  14. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    #34 GreyLens, Jan 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
    AST 5100's with Swift Springs - Tuning Suspension

    I bought used AST 5100's and 70Nmm Swift Springs in early 2011 and Werkin Mini did the install with new Vorshlag Variable plates (the red ones). I also installed the 18.5mm OEM JCW anti-sway bar.

    Feb 2011. I set the ride height the next day to about 1/2" below stock. The alignment was initially -2.2 Deg front, -1.5 rear, zero toe in front and 0.15 deg toe-in rear. The result was a significant improvement in times averaging about 1.2 to 1.5 secs compared to my number one competitor. But, some bad behavior came out. The inside rear tire lifted quite easily, it was worse on right hand sweepers than left and street ride was very bouncy even when rebound was max closed on the AST's. I also had wheel hop on high acceleration, especially when turning.

    July 2011. Without much research and no help, I decided to raise ride height back up to stock...thinking that would improve the situation. It didn't help and street ride was even worse. Instead of calling k-huevo for some help I plowed through the rest of the July-Oct with the set up. I sat out Nov and Dec for other reasons.

    Jan 2012. I brought k-huevo in and here's our current thoughts and set up. Raising back to stock height put serious pre-load on the springs...hence some of the bad behavior. K-huevo lowered it to 1" below stock height just to get some reasonable travel back in to play. It improved in several ways. I also am now running -2.5 deg camber front, -1.7 deg rear, 0.15 deg toe-in both front and rear. I also installed 60Nmm Swift Springs front and rear. Street ride is much better and street handling is improved. We'll see how it does on autox. I'm going to spend much more time working on the set up this year. I may also play with 60Nmm front and 70Nmm rear at some point. I also likely need to reset the JCW anti-sway bar while the wheels are fully loaded...that might be the source of difference between left and right turn behavior.

    One conclusion I think might be valid is that the AST solution for the R56 may have too short of a shock body and not enough travel. It might be better with another 1/2" or 1" length. They're using the exact same solution that they built for the R53 on the R56. K-huevo is going to discuss this with AST. Actually, the current set up would likely be great on the track but maybe less than ideal for autox or street. Nonetheless, it seems a very good set up. I'll try to post some detail of how it performs as we go. The AST product is very robust and high quality. The Swift springs are awesome. The new red Vorshlag plates are great. I also think, with the heavier springs over stock, the JCW sway bar is plenty. We'll see if those notions stick.
     
  15. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    Alignment Changes...big ones

    After driving several days with the new lower ride height I realized the behavior on the street was not what I wanted. Turn-in was quick but straight ahead steering was tiring... was too twitchy...wondering too much. So, I took it to our alignment guy who does work for many of the local track and autox folks. Here are the findings and results:

    Pre-alignment:

    Camber: Front Left: -2.9 deg, Front right: -2.6, Rear left: -2.3, Rear right: -3.0.
    Front: Toe-in: 0.15", Rear: Toe-in -0.25".

    So, lowering the ride height and a year of driving with no alignment resulted in some major changes over the set up I started with in Jan 2011.

    New Alignment: I put nearly the same set up in place I started with in Jan 2011 except I went back to stock Toe-in specs. The ride on the street/highway is much better. Handling is much tighter in general. I'm sure turn-in is not as good and understeer is more prevalent but we'll see what happens in my first event tomorrow.

    Camber: FL: -2.5, FR: -2.5, RL: -1.8, RR: -1.8, Front Toe-in: 0.10", Rear Toe-in: 0.25". Caster: Maxed.

    The stock Toe-in specs will likely increase inside wear on the tires but the outside wear from autox is pretty severe as well so they'll just wear more evenly. I'll be replacing them soon anyway.

    Again, I'm trying to find the balance between comfortable DD'ing and autox and track. I will probably stay with this config and tires through January and February. I'll adjust and get new tires by early March if needed/possible.

    If the understeer is strong I may put the 70Nmm springs back in the rear and keep the 60Nmm springs in the front and see what happens.
     
  16. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    #36 GreyLens, Jan 30, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
    29 Jan SASCA Event Results

    We had 117 drivers complete the day. The SCCA PAX scoring system is a handicapping system, that, while not perfect, does a pretty good job of leveling the scores based on the relative strength of makes of cars so I've put results in PAX scores.

    I was in last place in the STX Class. Bummer.

    The winner in STX was a 2008 WRX who placed 2nd place in PAX overall with a 38.59 sec time!

    Second in STX was the Mazdaspeed3 who placed 9th in PAX with a 36.75 sec time.

    Third in STX was the other WRX which placed 15th in PAX 40.278 sec time.

    I placed 16th in PAX with a 40.61 time...a full 2 secs behind 1st in STX.

    So, STX was a strong class for the day!! The only other class to have that many PAX scores in the top 16 was STR...Honda 2000's, etc. The placement of those AWD Subie's, even the older WRX's, in STX is clearly the major change for this year...I have work to do!

    The LENZ handled great! The hopping issue didn't manifest and no inside rear wheel lift that was a certainty each event last year. It was tight and did everything I told it too...(unfortunately, I guess). Much improved!!! I'm very pleased with the results of k-huevo's troubleshooting and tuning of the suspension set up. I also think the MTL change in the transmission helped...I'll write that up soon in a separate post.

    The tires are definitely too hard...a year of DDing just heat cycles them too much....will get new ones sooner than later. That will definitely help. But, clearly, I'm up against three very good drivers and their cars are well tuned. Two of them are using "dedicated" street tires, which is clearly a requirement to be most competitive in the ST classes...a practice that is growing dramatically. They're running Direzza Star Specs. It was a cold day and the Star Specs are great in those circumstances compared to the R-S3's I'm running. But, in our hot Texas weather the R-S3's shine...we'll see how that works over the year! The wheel alignment seems excellent though understeer is there at some level. I think that is the result of the stock Toe-In settings. The street handling is definitely much more comfortable...I'll see how it goes for a few more events before I decide to change it or not.

    Note: The driver of the '89 Civic that kicked my butt all last year placed 28th in PAX with a 41.43 sec. He was in a different Civic but a very similar set up. If he's a measure for me then the new set up might have made a big difference, indeed. At any rate, I'm glad I don't have to run against a car that is 700 lbs lighter anymore.

    I'll post more about "dedicated" street tires soon.

    The GREYLENZ is coming together!! Now, GreyLens just has to learn how to drive.
     
  17. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    Dedicated AutoX Wheels and Tires

    Heat cycling tires hardens them over time. DD'ing my R-S3's for a year has ruined them for autox so I'm considering getting a set of OZ Allegeritta's and another set of R-S3's. I'll change them at home before and after the event. I really don't want to haul them back and forth in the back of my Mini, tow a wheel cart or change them at the event after a long 100 degree day. If I'm going to be competitive in STX I must not only learn to drive better but I have to commit to this or just not have a chance with the local competition. A good set of tires vs a worn out set will make about a 1 sec difference.

    Note: Having dedicated street tires is less costly and less hassle than r-comps. I'll run the dedicated tires for events for the year and then switch them to the DDing wheels for the next year and get a new set for autox.

    Lug Bolts vs Studs: I'm also going to go back to Lug Bolts instead of the studs I installed a couple of years ago. I plan to have the local Discount Tire do the tire and wheel work and they simply won't install wheels on a non OEM configuration...no exceptions. They've built a brand new store just down the street so it will be very handy.

    Spacers: I'll also experiment with spacers. Looking to install 12mm or 16mm spacers which will increase overall track close to an inch.
     
  18. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

    May 6, 2009
    683
    159
    0
    Pipe Creek, Texas
    Ratings:
    +159 / 0 / -0
    OEM lug bolts aren't long enough for spacers, so do the spacer experiments while you have studs.
     
  19. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0
    I won't do spacers for a few months. When I do I'm going to buy a spacer bolt combo. According to my measurements I should be able to handle a 16 mm spacer which will move the wheel out 1/2". The first thing to do though is the dedicated tires.
     
  20. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 25, 2009
    259
    71
    0
    Electrical Engineer
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ratings:
    +71 / 0 / -0

Share This Page