Hey Grey, you are running too much neg camber in the rear for optimal rotation. To address oversteer with alignment for a MINI the rear should be ~1deg less neg than the front or maybe even a little more. You are presently running only a 0.7deg delta. So, adjust this before you slap the 70N springs on back there. BTW, 70N converts to 400lbs, not 450.
That makes a lot of sense. I will try that for sure. I think stock rear camber for the R56 is -1.5 deg anyway....that get's me to a 1.0deg delta.
Thanks. I hope this is of some use. Not a lot of contributors, so far, but I guess the autox crowd is kind of small anyway. I'm trying to label the individual posts in such a way that the subjects are searchable for folks looking at the specific issues even if they're not autox'ers. K-huevo, Mini-Racer and Redbeard are helping to keep this focused and technically valid. Btw, much of what I've learned about the MINI and set up for street, autox and track has come from direct work with K-huevo in the shop and Mini-Racer on the track (who is a hell of a driver, btw) and research of the perspective of members of Motoring Alliance. I used the other big Mini forum for the first year or two but I now participate exclusively on MA. I love the way you run this site.
I want to say that I appreciate the thread as well. I am running an R-53 but it is helpful to see what others are doing. I want to make sure everyone knows I am not trying to be negative to anyone’s ideas. I hope that by provoking discussion we can all learn. None of us have the time or money to fully develop these cars. This forum gives us a way to share ideas and improve everyone.
To STX or Not to STX...Is that the question? I'd love to get some thoughts on this issue. The more I think this through the more questions I have about staying in STX for this year as opposed to moving to "D" Street Prepared. I've spoken briefly to several of those reasons in this thread and a couple of related threads I started last year. But, despite my seemingly final decision for this year to stay in STX I'm, again, less sure of that decision. Here are reasons to consider moving to DSP instead of STX. 1. TIRES. Essentially, to stay competitive in any Street Touring class, even at the local level, it is increasingly essential to commit to the added expense and labor involved with a dedicated set of wheels and tires. Last year, if I had done so, I would have faired much better in the last half of the year against that well driven 89 Civic. Street tires are cheaper. R-comp's require more maintenance (flipping the tires side to side after a few runs) which costs time and money...but, it improves performance and makes them last longer so it is a worthwhile practice for R-comps but something you don't do with street tires. Best times would be interesting. It would be fun to see what my absolute best raw times could be compared to the fastest cars of the day. Only R-comps can get you there. When all is said and done, it would be fun for the local drivers to see a MINI kick a little more butt. While I've been improving my driving, reducing times by 1.5 secs+ just by moving to R-comps would simply be exciting fun. A negative is transporting wheels and tires in my MINI and changing on-site before and after events. Yuk. 2. Other MODs. I still have that intercooler sitting on the shelf. I can install it in DSP. There are a few other mod's I might consider/have planned to do someday that I've delayed because I'm in STX instead of DSP. One mod allowed in DSP is flaring the wheel wells/fenders. While i'm not likely to do this right away I've thought it would be fun at some point. Then again, getting much wider tires under there is maybe not that cost effective but it would add a bit of capability. I could also take advantage of the Cobb AccessPort tune which I have to remove when I run in STX. 3. Competitive strategy. Locally, the DSP class has six regular competitors and STX has three or four. If I move over to DSP it would be one of the bigger classes for local events...at least seven regulars. Compared to the DSP cars running right now I would do well because there are few/no AWD's in DSP here. The movement of the 2004-2008 WRX's to STX this year has changed the landscape for MINI's quite a bit in STX. 4. If I go to tour level events (not likely till 2013) the competition in DSP goes way up because of the likelihood of running against fully developed DSP cars...which is a big step up over STX, generally. Despite my discussion of competition issues, I'm not really driven to "win", as such, mainly because I'm just not that good of a driver. But, being fairly competitive makes it more fun. Having said that, if I ever do commit to going to tour events and the nationals I will have no illusions as to competitiveness at that level. But, being competitive at the local level is fun. Given the the local competition I think I would do better in DSP, though there are some good cars and drivers there as well. I'm going there someday, anyway. When all is said and done, I like the addition of mod's to the GreyLenz and envision doing several more mods that take me out of STX anyway. Rather than wait another year or two for the sake of staying in STX maybe I should just do them sooner than later. If I move to DSP now at least I'll be in the class for the annual points from the beginning of the year. If I do this I'll start another thread about "Moving from STX to DSP for the R56" or something like that... Well, those are some thoughts. Any input?
I'm on my phone so I will have to post my whole thought out answer tonight once I get home. You bring up a valid point and SP classes are a slippery slope with many more adjustments. I will pontificate on what you wrote and respond, in depth, tonight.
DSP takes a lot more $$ to be competitive, and you end up with a car that's unpleasant on the street. Here's my recommendation: buy a second set of wheels (used) and throw on a brand new dedicated set of autox tires (~$800). Then buy a 24V cordless impact gun, a deep 19mm impact socket, a spare battery, and a lightweight aluminum racing jack (~$500). If you haven't already, install a stud conversion kit on the MINI (~$150). Take out your rear seats, lay down an old flat sheet, and figure out how your wheels best fit in the back of the car (and they'll fit, MINIs have tons of room). Now you can change wheels in 10 minutes without breaking a sweat, 5 if you're on the clock. And that's the easy part. The hard part is deciding whether you can settle for second or third place, knowing that you're becoming a better driver. If you can't settle, you probably need a different car.
It sounds like you want to move to DSP. You might as well get a years’ worth of points. The primary reason I run STX is I do not have to change tires at the event. My MINI is not my daily driver so I can leave HP street tires on all the time. If you don’t want to leave then on all the time and you want to do some more mods to your car, I think you should change classes.
I will make one statement regarding cost: It's up to you. For me, to make a prepped to the rules SP car is waaaayyyy out of my price range. However I used to run with a retired metalworker who was well off and could do a ton of the work is his garage so it wasn't out of the question for him. So, if you can afford it is up to you. Cons: A valid point already brought up is that a fully prepped SP car generally is miserable to run on the street. Most likely you will have to run a different car for daily driving. If you can't tow it to the event then you will have to swap tires on site. Which means getting to the events earlier and hauling more equipment with you (jack, torque wrench, cordless impact driver, etc...). A fully prepped DSP car will much harder to get the set-up adjusted "right" for you. You introduce new variables in adjustment (albeit not much more than STX but more factors). You are also introducing a much more varied field of competition. With stock and ST classes there are a few clear "superior" cars but when you get to SP classes that kinda goes away. You have less known about the other cars and it gets harder to tell if they are better drivers or if they have better cars. Pros: You can run your tune. You can run R-comps. You are virtually free on suspension set-up. As opposed to what BThayer23 said you don't need to remove your rear seats to get your tires in there. You can just fold them down. (It will all fit with room for a passenger if you do it right) You can also use a $50 Craftsman jack. It does the trick. In agreement with BThayer23 Cordless impact isn't needed but they are worth every penny. Run studs. They can be had for $30-50 if you know where to look. One major pro of running DSP, you can do what you want to the car. At the end of the day you have to choose what will make you happiest. I say forget prepping to the rules if you are jonesing to run your tune and have an intercooler that you want to swap in. Go for it. It will put you in DSP. So what? If you don't win your class will that make you less happy than getting to run your tune with the parts you wanted on the car? You could run DSP on street tires. You don't need to do every class legal mod. Just run that car how you want and have fun with it. If not winning your class and being nationally competitive matter enough that you wouln't be happy then stay in STX, prep to the rules, sell off the spare parts you have and put the money you would have spent on mods to an Evolution Autocross school and more seat-time. Either way make sure you are happy and you are having fun. That's my $0.02 and I'm sure that I over-charged.
Last winter I purchased Alex Schipkov's DSP E30, and ran it locally. I haven't done any tours yet, or gone to Nats, but I have been keeping an eye on the DSP "scene". There's been quite a bit of talk about DSP shrinking at tours and nats mostly because of the dominance of the various BMWs. I didn't see any changes in the 2012 rules that would make other car(s) more competitive in DSP. I wouldn't count on large DSP fields nationally moving forward unless something changes. Removing the rear seat puts you in SM/SMF. The back seat has to stay in for both STX and DSP.
Moving from STX to DSP...Finally. Thanks to all. Gents: Thanks. I've waffled back and forth on this issue for two years now. Thanks for the slap upside the head. I just re-registered for the next few events under DSP even though I won't have the r-comps in place for a couple of months. I'll lay out the reasons below in reference to your input in case that might help someone else with this decision. BThayer23, You're right, the hard part is deciding to settle for less than first place. Well, I can do that easily enough. When all is said and done, I actually have other priorities...which run along the lines others have laid out in their comments. Bottom line, I love the GREYLENZ and plan to drive it till I'm dead and keep it in great shape along the way. I'll not prep it to a full DSP mod level because I want to DD it. It's the closest thing to a motorcycle (my long lost love) that has four wheels (a requirement from my current love...that is, the wife). The daily thrill of driving to work renews each morning. But, some of the Mod's I want for the fun track days and general street driving take me to DSP. So, I'm going there. CarlB, Funny, when you wrote it down..."sounds like you want to move to DSP"...I realized...uh, looks like I really want to move to DSP. Doh! Redbeard, Bottom line is my "bottom line" can afford the mod's. I have the extra cash to do more to the car, go to the track, do autox, keep it in good repair, etc. I've never personally taken care of a car before. I'm learning a lot and it has all been great fun. You car nuts know something the rest of us "take it to the dealer" folks don't. I'm hooked. I dumped those 540's and 740's and even my M Coupe for a reason. I want to finish out a level of mod's just for the hell of it. A couple of months ago, while I was in a "WalMart parking lot", a couple of young dudes in a subdued but well prepped Subbie noticed the GREYLENZ as similarly prepped. They gave a thumbs up from across the parking lot then walked over to talk. We met, shared some technical info about our cars and parted. That was fun. Btw, I look forward to meeting you when you get to Austin. cenotaph, Interesting observation about DSP. Locally, the six other regular DSP entrants are all in DSP primarily because they have a combination of a few mod's that kick them into the class but they'll likely never fully mod it out. They're having a blast. One fellow is driving a fully stock Mazdaspeed 3 except for one mod that kicks him into DSP and he wanted to see what he could do on R-comps as well. Several R53's have come to events over the last couple of years. They all had mod-pulley's installed which kicked them into DSP even when they'd done little else to the car. When they show up at least we'll have a few MINI's running in the same class...fun. Note: Yep, those back seats have to stay in for DSP...I'm cool with that. ScottinBend, As I remember, you said most of this to me in another thread about 18 months ago. So, I'm finally listening. :cornut: :cornut: :cornut: So, my first DSP run will be this Sunday. I'll still be in full STX format with old, hard R-S3's, so I'll at least post the effects of the transition over the next couple of months as I get the new wheels and tires on board, put in the intercooler, change the tune with the AccessPort, etc. "...So long New York Howdy, East Orange."
Cool. Glad you figured it out. You should be having fun with your car. If you aren't it's time to change the music.
Cars are an addiction. I have a track car already because I modified it too much. I never liked autocrossing until I got a MINI. Now I want a Super 7 to autocross. If I get one I will just use my MINI for the street. I love my R-53 and will keep it forever. I probably will wait to build an engine for the MINI until I have something else to autocross. I would like about 250 HP and then I really will need the different dif.
D'oh. Forgot about that. Go to DSP, mod it how you want, and enjoy the crap out of your car. Amen to that. This, and having 6 tracks within 5 hr drive, is what prompted me to stop autocrossing and start doing HPDEs.
DSP: First Event We had a big turn out on Sunday...115 drivers. We had six drivers in the DSP class. 1st Place: 35.014...Mazdaspeed 3...light modifications running R-comp tires. 2nd Place: 35.387...Me...moderate modifications...dead R-S3's 3rd Place: 35.611...Mazdaspeed 3...light mods running R-comps Other three were two M-Speed 3's and 2006 GTI. Since we had six entrants I got a 2nd place which gets points for the annual trophy. The 1st Place Speed 3 got his second set of 1st place points. So, I'm definitely coming from behind. Most important, of course, is we had a blast. Each run we moved back and forth with the best time. Tires vs mods vs car type vs driving skill. Total fun! I really need those R-comps. The 1st place driver is more disciplined and consistent than I am and we've both been doing autox for two years. But, I think the GreyLenz can dominate DSP locally if I improve my driving and get the R-comps, which won't happen till probably April. I have three events in the next four weeks between SASCA and Spokes. GreyLenz is really handling well. I should have spent much more time last year working on the set up once I got the suspension installed. I'm going to do more homework on suspension tuning in the coming months. Also, running the Stage One tune was fun, indeed. About mid year I'll consider doing the next big modification which will be a serious upgrade to the JCW exhaust if it can be improved upon much. I'll start research soon. I'm definitely going to start a SCCA 2012 "D" Street Prepared thread in a few days. I'll reference this thread in it. DSP opens a pandora's box of mod opportunities. I'll be very selective in what I embrace since I'm not going to do it all and especially since the GreyLenz will remain my daily driver but I'll try to talk a bit about each of the areas and get opinions from others as I go. Note on former STX competition: All the heavy hitters from both Austin and San Antonio were out for this event. There are quite a few national level drivers here. With all of them on track the winner of STX who placed 2nd overall at the last event (2008 WRX) placed 21st at this event with a 34.231 . I placed 35th overall and I was 1.156s behind on this short course which is quite a bit. I think if I had fresh R-S3's I could have dropped about 0.5s...? But, I'm still behind him by close to a second. He's quite the driver and his WRX is very well prepped and kept. Placing 21st in this field is tough.