Most liked posts in thread: SCCA STX Class Build and Experience

  1. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Dec 17, 2009
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    I'm right there with you. It's what I call the "attack" mentality. On a track you don't want that. You have room to move/think/adjust. At an autox you hve to attack each turn with energy and wield that with smooth control and, as you put it, "tidy" placement.

    However, what you learn at the track applies to autox because you will learn to see the line better and you can use that in autox.

    Now, if you really want me to blow your mind add in this bit of data: Go Karting. You will learn about the two different Karting lines. One is just like the "racing line" that applies at tracks and autox'es. The other is called the "grip line" This is the line where you can keep your foot in it the longest and the kart will hold. Now this may seem like the same as the racing line but it's not. It's also not always the fastest as you run a longer distance usually than the traditional race line. In order to get quick you have to know both and figure out which one to use and where.

    This is much like autox when you drive on sticky tires. You can cut some distance (race line) or you can add more speed and run wider(grip line) to get through the section. The way you decide is how that extra speed and different entry point effects your set-up for the next section. How do you decide? Walk the course. Run the course while doing a good job looking ahead. Adjust as needed.
     
  2. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

    May 6, 2009
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    There are trade-offs when increasing camber beyond negative two degrees, wheel spin is one, although not as much of an issue on GreyLens' OS Giken LSD equipped car, and reduced traction affects braking too. It is individual performance that will dictate optimum camber; what works for one tire/suspension/environment/driving style, may not be the best for another.

    The square spring rates on GreyLens' kit were intended for a heavier MINI used primarily as a road track car. GreyLens is also used at the track, but for autoX, lower rate 60N/mm springs up front would be better suited as a starting point for that application. Also, because GreyLens is a daily driver, I would suggest compromising rear spring bias and recommend 60N/mm springs front & rear.

    AST 4100 & 5100 series shocks have excellent valving that can be experienced during low speed/driver inputs. Primarily, it's quality valving without much bleed-off that allows higher rate springs to be tolerable on the street, and rebound damping can be used to adjust turn-in & exit characteristics independent of spring rate.
     
  3. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    I think k-huevo is on the money here. I'm going to run the 70n/mm springs for awhile but may move lighter at some point. I can see a scenario where I go to the 60's (Swift only for me) most of the time and then move back to 70's in the rear (or both Front and Rear) for the autox divisional's and national's in the summer.

    I got the alignment done yesterday by a local fellow who has a very strong reputation for quality service here among the autox and track crowd. I can see why he has the rep and will go to him exclusively.

    Here are the final specs I decided on. He set all parameters EXACTLY as requested.

    Front: -2.2 deg cam ... 0 deg toe

    Rear: -1.5 deg cam ... 0.15 deg toe in

    I'll probably keep this setup for the summer though I may go back in August for a final tweak of alignment if I decide to take the plunge and attend nationals. I figure I need to start getting the experience sooner than later.

    K-huevo has convinced me to keep good records on damper settings, tire pressure, driving experience, impressions etc and work from there. Then we'll assess next steps. I still haven't done any real testing but a little bit of street exercise was a blast. It's like a wholly different car! We'll see how long it takes me to learn how to drive it.

    Unfortunately, we have an illness in the family that may keep me from making the local autox event this Sunday. We're hosting the SW Divisional in June and I'm sure I'll be able to make that one, though.
     
  4. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    K-huevo...thanks for posting the results.

    This was the first club win I've had against the "class hopping" civic I've been battling all year. As you can see I barely beat him but I DID FINALLY beat him nonetheless. Most important I'm consistently running about 1.2+ secs faster compared to him as a measure and I'm still learning to drive the new set up and have some more tuning to do. I'm still thinking of going to the lighter swift springs (60n/mm instead of the 70n/mm) for daily driver quality at some point but the car sure handles now.

    As far as the Year Trophy for STX for the club, it looks like the civic now has it locked so I can't catch him. But, I plan on making the rest of his year as intense as possible!!:devil:

    Tell your friend thanks for the compliment. I'm starting to get the hang of autocross and my learning curve has increased with adding the new suspension. That may sound strange but it has really improved my awareness of what is really happening on the course second by second and some coaching from some of the guys in the club has really helped.

    I'm definitely planning on hitting all the divisionals and the nationals next year. The GreyLenz should be in great shape by then!! :drool:drool:drool
     
  5. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

    Jun 3, 2009
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    I actually attended only my 2nd auto-x yesterday, but b/c of chosen modifications i was bumped to SMF, which was actually the biggest class there.

    At this point i think i am going to remove the 15% pulley i have, as that is what bumped me to SMF.

    As far as what STX allows, and what really pertains to MINIs, is what i am interesting in.

    I do know you are allowed a 9" wheel, and 265 rubber being 2wd.

    So what else is allowed that is a common "mod" on Minis.

    Camber plates ? Yes
    Camber arms? Yes
    Spring/Struts? Yes
    Bracing (TSW X-brace) ?
    Brakes ?
    CAI ? Yes
    Header and the rest of the exhaust ? I think the header has to maintain a cat.
    Sway bars ? Yes
    Sway bar endlinks? Yes

    There are 265 tires out there, but would require a 16" wheel.
     
  6. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    You're right on all the "yes" items. The X-brace is not allowed. You can only have connections front to rear...but no cross braces from side to side. Brakes can be most any size and make.

    The biggest option is any Limited Slip differential is allowed. I just got one installed this week. For STX the options that have the biggest payoff are wheels and tires, LSD and suspension. I think the MINI can do quite well in the STX class.
     
  7. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

    Jun 3, 2009
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    Yes, i forgot about the diff.

    I agree, i think the Mini could do well, but i am inexperienced so i just speaking out my butt really.
     
  8. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    KC,

    If you get going in autox perhaps we'll meet up at one of the divisional events. I plan to make all of them in 2011. Where do you usually compete?
     
  9. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    May 5, 2009
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    Good decision IMO. I absolutely loved running in the ST class when I was autocrossing regularly and found that the MINI could be quite competitive. I think the MINI has room to shine in that class and is obviously still a blast to drive.

    Might want to add powerflex control arm bushings to the list. Suspension bushing upgrades are allowed as long as they aren't metal.
     
  10. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

    May 4, 2009
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    I am just starting out as well. I have been running with the local BMW club. I plan on running with the SCCA next year and have been to two of their events. I wanted to run STX because I wouldn't have to deal with race tires. In stock you wouldn't be close to competitive without race tires.
     
  11. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

    Jun 3, 2009
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    I am up here in East Texas actually, and will most likely just finish out the season with RRR (Welcome to the Red River Region SCCA site!) as they are only 2hrs away from me. I wouldnt "step-down" to STX until next year, when i hopefully will be able to get a diff in there.

    Quick questions for yall here:

    JCW s/c + pulley, how does this fall? Do i have to have the entire package, or do i have to be a certain year, or what ?!

    Camber plates; the vorshlag, the ones i am working towards are a solid metal bushing, so would these not be allowed ? Would i need to find a plate w/ some sort of bushing ?

    And the clutch, i know you cant "upgrade" but can i use the Valeo "stock replacement" clutch/flywheel setup, or is this not allowed either ?

    And b/c i am a picture whore:

    [​IMG]

    (not the best photo, but was not taken by me)

    No, i am not cornering, i have use the sunroof void to fit.... lmao.
     
  12. danf

    danf New Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    I thought I'd jump in here. I'm in my second year of auto-xing and am really addicted to the sport. I drive an R53 in SMF. I don't do any SCCA events though as there are about a dozen auto-x clubs to choose from within a 20 mile radius of where I live. I'll probably do 30+ events this year.
     
  13. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    I've assumed the Vorshlag variable plates were allowed in STX but now I'll have to research that...I was planning to move to AST 5100's, Swift springs and Vorshlag Plates...but want to stay in STX....hmmm.

    I believe the Valeo clutch is fine....same specs as OEM. I just replaced the clutch (only 26K miles!!) with stock clutch and flywheel when I installed the OS Giken LSD. I'm in a 2009 JCW and am unsure of the STX implications for 1st gener's...you're sending me back to the rules with several questions to answer for my own upgrade plans....

    Good pic...I'm going to post a few of the GreyLenz soon as well.

    I'm going to check out the Red River club and I'd love to make one event in the next few months if I can work it out. Can't find directions to the track site yet...
     
  14. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    Cool. I haven't looked that closely at the SM rules yet...will do so if my mod plans are going to push me out of STX. I'm really set on the AST's, Swift springs and Vorshlag Plates....I need to verify the impact of the Vorshlag plates having metal bushings....

    So, how competitive have you been in SMF? I don't see any Mini's running in that class around here.
     
  15. danf

    danf New Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    You can use metal in the bushings for camber plates, it is the control arm bushings that no metal is allowed. In other words no PSRS. I used to have an ST Cooper that had the Vorschlag plates.
     
  16. danf

    danf New Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    I can throw up my results from the past weekend if that is what you are looking for.....

    On Sunday I had an event with the local BMW club. This is held on a closed army airfield in Mass. A full loop course. The BMW club typically sets up fast but technical courses. The courses are just under 1 mile long. This event started off dry (not my run group) but all remaining runs after that were in the rain. I did much better than I usually do as I enjoy auto-xing in the rain. I am in run group B #201. Here are the results: Boston Chapter BMW CCA - Autocross Results

    On Saturday I had an event with the Renegade Miata club at the same location. Similar style courses as BMW. This was a nice sunny day. Here are the results from that, I am #291: http://www.renegademiata.net/2010_Aug_21_AutoX.pdf
     
  17. GreyLens

    GreyLens New Member
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    Dec 25, 2009
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    Yes, you're right.

    Btw, the OS Giken LSD is awesome! I had a chance to give it a bit of a workout today. It really changes the dynamics coming out of a turn. This is going to help significantly.
     
  18. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

    Jun 11, 2009
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    The Alta PSRS

    has a metal housing but a plastic ball. Don't know what this means with regard to the rules. I'm clueless on that stuff.

    Matt
     
  19. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

    Jun 12, 2009
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    That means it's out. Can't add any metal to the joint.
     
  20. maacodale

    maacodale Club Coordinator

    May 7, 2009
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    A little advise from a 30+ year autocross veteran if I may. Don't get real hung up on mod or classes for the first two years or so into autox competition. The most adjustable part of the car is the driver. Keeping the car mostly stock and on stock tires will help learn what you're doing wrong and what needs the most attention. Work on finding the right line, breaking and turn in points and areas where you can make the most of your MINI.

    Remember smooth and easy is the way to get trophies. All that sliding and tire squealing look impressive, but it surely isn't fast. SCCA has MINI's in so crappy rules (I was Solo II chair for 12+ years with SCCA-Old Dominion Region) when you get into street prepared. SM and STX are somewhat better classes.

    We took the kids bone stock 07 MCS with just Hoosiers down to some carolina autocrosses a couple of years ago. I ran GS and the kid ran SM or DSP depending on the competition. We were both 3 for 3 in 2008. I can't wait to get some free time and run the Clubbie and teach the daughter child how to autox.

    Good luck to all the new and future autocrossers out there.