Ok. I think you missed my point but my point is not really that important. I'm never stressed over this stuff...just having a blast. Thanks for the lesson and the pity and the discovery of my type "A" problem. Not sure what mods would have to come off to stay in STX. The way I read the rules I'm in compliance. I plan to go to the divisional events next year so I definitely want to make sure I'm kosher. That's the real reason I started this thread is to better understand the rules and perspective on the relative value of various mods in each class and the major differences in each class. For example, I was going to do an upgrade to my suspension this year and many/most of the top drivers in central Texas that I've met advised first doing an LSD because it would be a better investment from a performance perspective. I think they were right. If I stay in STX I don't have much left to do to the car except the planned upgrade for the suspension. As I look at the Street Prepared rules and Modified rules I'm convinced I don't want to go there since this will remain my daily driver and I don't want to change the car that much and I don't want to mess with the tire change thing which is one of the reason's I started in STX instead of stock. I'm old and in my day we used to come together on back roads and do a little extended drag time with our daily drivers and I've always liked the romance of that "run as you are" thing.
ScottinBend, I went back and read this original post of yours and I apologize for my "laughing" comment. I misread the intent of your post and my comment was out of line. I took your post to infer a negative comment about "competition" in general that has always been a pet peeve of mine. That was not what you said and I over reacted. Again, I apologize for the laughing comment. You've clearly had much more experience at autocross than my meager 10 months and I appreciate your advice on deciding what my priorities are regarding participation in autocross. My priority is simply to have a great deal of fun, learn how to drive much better and make anyone else in my class sweat hard if they're going to beat me (which is usually the outcome.) Congratulations on taking that two years and working on winning your class. I understand more each day how difficult that is to do. I also understand that most people find keeping up that pace up over extended periods just too much to maintain. I'm the same way. What is interesting was the idea that I thought I was responding to in your original post came out in your response to my "laughing" comment. I understand how my comment spurred this reaction but I have to say I still take exception to some of your comments in that second post. I think you missed my key point when you said "Not everyone attends an AutoX with the purpose of winning. Yes it would be nice, but to say that the only way to have fun is to try and win is just plain wrong." I happen to agree with that statement as I said, "I also don't do autocross just to win. Few do. If everyone did there would be no one racing since there can be only one winner at a time." When I said "But, trying hard to win each time you're out IS the fun. If you're not trying hard you're cheating the fellow running in your class." This is the key point of my response to your original post. I just believe that when competing in any sport it is courteous and honest to try as hard as one can to win the competition. If one loses, you owe it to the winner to congratulate him on his win. I always do and I usually like to find some way to let them know I was doing my best. They beat my best. That makes their success more meaningful. Each time we both try our best our best gets better. That is the power of competition between humans. If, on the other hand, I would say, "congratulations on your win but, btw, I wasn't really trying" I see that as an insult. That is my only point here. I find no shame or loss of self worth upon losing any competition. In fact, the effect is quite the opposite. I usually learn much more than if I had conducted the same effort without competition. Of your other comments here's one I'll also respond to: "I guess this is the difference between the A's and the B's of the world.......and I am happy being a B. Don't need to pound my chest and declare to the world that I am better than someone else. I have met your type at the course, and I pity folks like you that can't simply compete for the sake of having fun. The win at all costs is not something I subscribe to." My point here would be that you have yet to meet me. We don't know each other. In fact, I doubt you have met many of "my type" on the course. In fact, I do "simply compete for the sake of having fun." I don't beat my chest. And, I, too, do not subscribe to "winning at all costs." I also seek no pity. I do believe in the purity of human competition. When done with honesty and courage it brings the best out of everyone. I've participated in a few competitive games over the years. I have no real talent in any of them. But, I've always worked hard at whatever I take on to honor the sport and the other players with my best effort. When they beat me, which they usually do, I like to make sure they know they beat my best and next time it should be a little harder to do. Last point: I agree that on a minute by minute basis Autocross is likely harder on the car than track time. But, six autocross runs in a day is not likely to put as much wear and tear on a car as five 20 minute sessions on a track. In my limited experience at both I see a marked difference between the two. I also see AutoX as a better teacher of core street driving skills than track time. I'm trying to do as I can of both over the next 2 or 3 years to prepare for the Newfoundland Targa, which is the racing format I've always believed to be the ultimate in fun and I'd like to do it before I get too old. I also find the idea of doing all of this in a daily driver a fun challenge. Explaining that would take way too much time and would be boring, I'm sure. If you've taken the time to read this then thank you for that time. If you take further time to provide advise on occasion I will be grateful. I'm learning a great deal in this sport. I think I'm hooked for the rest of my life.
No problems here mate, all is good. And thanks for the well thought out response and apology. This is what makes the world a great place to be, folks with different experiences and expectations having some common ground just to have fun. I wasn't trying to promote the idea that you shouldn't race your hardest or to quantify your race by saying "I wasn't really trying", more of the philosophy that to do YOUR best is the best measurement of success vs how well you did in the standing at the end of the race. If you know you put it all out there, no one can fault you your finishing position. This is the motto I have come to live by, as I don't need the results board to tell me if I was a winner or not. And this quote is precisely what I mean....."I do believe in the purity of human competition. When done with honesty and courage it brings the best out of everyone. I've participated in a few competitive games over the years. I have no real talent in any of them. But, I've always worked hard at whatever I take on to honor the sport and the other players with my best effort. When they beat me, which they usually do, I like to make sure they know they beat my best and next time it should be a little harder to do." I think with a bit more time at the autoX you will appreciate my assertion that it is harder on the car than a track day. I did more maintenance on my cars while autoXing than I have ever done for track days. Again, thanks for the very well put post. Oh......if you ever do get to the Targa race, let me know cause that is an event I have had on my bucket list for years (as is the Nurburgring and Tara New Zealand) Good luck getting there !
Thanks. This is a great community and I'm going to be patient and read things more carefully before posting comments. Maybe we'll meet up one day. I'm serious about the Newfoundland Targa. I'm finishing year one of a four year plan. I'm turning 60 so the clock is ticking. Wish I'd discovered all this years ago. Still, I feel great and I'm having a blast!
We had our last event of the year for the BMW club at Devens. Someone came out and took some really spectacular pictures. Thought I would share: 20101030 - BMW CCA Autocross
Wow...great pictures! Looks like you're running at an airfield. How long are the runs usually? We usually end up with 45+ fast times at our local club. I'm planning on going to a club this weekend that runs on an airfield and they usually set up courses with 75+ fast times. I've only done that once and the course was so long I couldn't remember it well and DNF'd 4 out of 5 runs.
Yes it's an abandoned army airfield. If a club runs the short course it is usually 65 to 80 seconds. Generally the long course is 120-140 seconds. The long courses are usually less technical or plenty of slaloms. Usually if I DNF and I don't know where I'll either take an instructor on my next run or ride with someone.
I posted this on another thread but, thought I'd put it here too. ScottinBend made the point that he thinks autox might be harder on the car than HPDE's. Well, he might be right. I just killed my turbo and the dealer said, "good luck." So, I'll be working over the next couple of weeks to remove and replace it. Given everything else going on it might take me a few weeks to get done. I'll likely miss 7 Nov and 14 Nov autox events but I'm trying to get running to make an HPDE i'm registered for on 20 Nov. I can't find a post on how to replace a turbo so if anyone knows of one I'd appreciate a link. It looks like a fairly straight forward job and I have professional support available if needed. Thinking about getting a new one and rebuilding the old as a back-up. Found a couple of sites to get that work done. I will definitely make the events in December, though. :sad: I'm also feeling the tug to do an intercooler and a couple of other things that would take me into Street Prepared. But I'm resisting.
Thanks. I have a local certified mini mechanic to help at critical times. But, I'm actually looking forward to doing most of this myself. Once it is running again I'll get the flash tool and tunes refined and organized and resume the autox and DE's. When I break something else I'll just fix it. The goal is to keep it in good condition as a daily driver and still do the other stuff. It's all good. I couldn't find a post on swapping out a turbo. I might try to do one if it would be useful. Most experienced folks wouldn't see that way, probably, but it might be helpful for novices like me.
Good to see someone building one for STX. Not the class I'd choose as FWD and relatively small street tires, forward bite will be the critical issue. A well Set up Diff is going to be key. I'd lean towards building it as a SP car so you can run a Big fat Hoosier on it. It's been a long time since I've read STX rules, but last time I read the rules an ECU reflash was not legal in STX but was in SP. But that was atleast 2 years ago so it might have changed. But that's just me... Very intersting read on a rather Unusual STX car build that just popped up.... J-Rho's '67 Camaro Z28 STX build
The ECU reflash is now legal but it can not change the boost level. The main mod the mini folks like to do that kicks you up to SP is changing the intercooler. Turns out, after all my STX thinking this year, I'm going to move to DSP next year. Might do another thread on building a JCW for DSP... :confused5: Got the turo in and up and running again. Next event is this Sunday.
I'm late to the party in this thread but I ran STX this year in the Las Vegas Region. It's not a really competitive class here so it was a nice place to hide from the DS Mini's running R-compounds. My Mini is stock aside from the tires (Dunlop Direzza Starspecs 215/45/17). I took 1st place mostly out of showing up the most but even against modified STX cars I could still hold my own (partially because some of other STX guys/gals were new at AutoX). When I am done with the Dunlops I am considering getting some NT-01s and going back to DS. I'll never be a good enough driver for nationals but I'm happy to be competitive at the local level so a longer lasting NT-01 will be good for AutoX.
Personally i am going up to SMF. The limited tire choices for a R53 in STX will always be the factor. Plus, i really have zero desire to pull my S/C Pulley off, b/c of how much it helps on a DD basis.
I say go for it. Too many people look at the class and decide how to mod thier car. If you want to be a nationals level driver that is the way to choose, but if you are like the remaining 95% of us your AutoX car is a regular ride or a DD (like mine). Make the mods that make sense to you. If you have to move to SMF cool. It's the class that suits your car not the other way around. When I swapped to the short throw shifter on my Mustang that took me out of FS and I had to move to STU or ESP. I moved to ESP. I was getting left behind because I was really an FS car with a class swapping mod. However, that short throw made driving the Mustang a sublime experience on a DD basis. At the end of the day the best mod you can make is ALWAYS the nut behind the wheel. :ihih:
That's where I'm going with our mini, The burtal tq it makes with the twin screw blower will be a big bonus.
Turns out I've decided to stay in the STX class for a long time. The Street Prepared class is a slippery slope if you want to stay competitive and that might be a worthwhile thread to call out the important differences if anyone is interested. There are some major changes to the SCCA ST classes under consideration for 2012. They're up for review during the rest of 2011 so it will be worth checking them out and commenting. I've read them and plan to comment soon after some more thinking and discussions with local folks that have more experience in autocross. I'll make a few posts soon. Not sure if it would be best to continue this thread or to start a separate one. I'll search to see if one is already going on MA.