See, now this is why I asked. I read the rules, but honestly they made me a little nauseous. I was just happy to beat several XP times my first time out (with street tires) guess all that track time has paid off for something. But this is wicked fun, can't wait to do more!
Thought I'd post this about a local autox event in San Antonio in case anyone is still following this thread...maybe a little food for thought....maybe not.... There were 4 entrants in STX. I took 4th place. The winner was once again the '89 CRX (two time national champ car). 2nd and 3rd place went to the two co-drivers of the Hundai Genesis R-Type. The times were interesting: 1st: 46.2s CRX 2nd: 46.3s Genesis 3rd: 46.6s Genesis 4th: 47.2s JCW Again, I was only 1 sec behind the winner. This course was about 33% longer than the last one so time wise I did better than last time when I was 0.8s behind, technically. Essentially, the driving skills among us are pretty equal. At least I think so. The biggest difference is their cars are more seriously prepped suspension wise. Their wheels and tires are also maxed for their cars in this class, which is probably the biggest factor, especially the Genesis. I need to get the suspension done and a set up of 8"+ wheels and 235x40 tires to max out. I need new tires but I'll likely just stay with 215's for the rest of this year...looking at new RS-3's or Star Specs or Khumo XS's. The point is I think this speaks highly of the potential for the JCW platform. During the AutoX School event last week one of my instructors who is a national champ (drives a 2007 Subbie STI fully prepped for STU and always places in top 4 raw time) took his first ride in a mini with me. He said he was very surprised at the torque, HP and handling, especially for being the base CooperS suspension. He said that the MINI's have done well at the nationals in STX and he now understood why. Btw, he gave me great coaching on my driving which, according to him, will likely take at least another couple of years to fully develop the techniques he showed me. Last year it took about 6 months to get competitive with the local competition in STX and we had six different drivers over the year. The second half of the year is where I finally started picking up some wins. Between SPOKES and SASCA this year the competition is quite a bit heavier. There are eight drivers so far this year and two of the cars are much better prepped. This is going to be fun.
Keep posting, I check this thread every day for updates. Nice to hear your improving and hopefully having a good time.
Wow. I'm guessing the CRX is in STX because the put an LSD in it (woah three letter abreviation time). It looks pretty good but a 1 second difference is pretty big on a 46-47 second course. Your JCW is "stock" right? Some suspension (springs & shocks and/or sway-bars) and better tires will make a HUGE difference. Assuming you are correct regarding the other vehicles prep and driver ability that should kick you right to the front. I'd go with the RS-3's, if you can (they don't sell them in 215/45/17 yet). They are an awesome tire and they perform VERY well in the heat (like San Antonio in the summer). If not go with the Kumho's if you have dedicated AutoX rims as they wear quickly with road driving. If you need to DD on the same tires your AutoX on then go for the Starspecs. Lastly, it won't take years if you get more seat time. Try an open track event (HPDE) or if there is a Karting joint around you go there. Trust me, doing these things will help your AutoX'ing abilities GREATLY. Keep us updated as you go through your season. I'm rooting for you!
Hey guys, Thanks for the input. Yes, the JCW is stock except for the LSD I put in and the 15lb wheels. I'm just getting ready to get tires and I'm leaning towards the RS-3's. It's a bummer they're not available in 215/45/17's yet...that's just what I need for the next set. I'd love to put 225/45/17's on but it seems they'll rub too much. I've really liked the star specs this year so I might stay with them if I can't get the RS-3's. I won't buy for a few more weeks. Yes, 1s is a pretty big gap on a 46s course. That's where I was last year for the first 6 months...for almost 10 events I was 1s+ behind a couple of 2002 WRX's that were well prepped and reasonably driven. Then I finally got 15lb wheels and the star specs and I jumped ahead for most of the rest of the year. I'm expecting the same thing this year with the updates I'm planning. Also, my star specs are just dead so getting some new tires in a few weeks will help a bit as well until I can do the rest. Actually, I'm doing a track day this Saturday. I've done a few and they've been a big help. Aren't you guys doing autox this year?
The Starspecs are great (I run them now). The XS is stickier though it doesn't do as well as the R-S3s in high ambient temps and the tread leaves faster than the Starspecs. I used to be in the Las Vegas Region SCCA. 7-10 runs per event. Sometimes more. Laid back group having a good time. I moved to So Cal and the region here is crummy. Nationals style "3 and Done" along with rule Nazis protesting everyone like it was a nationals event. Did I mention it's more expensive too? Yeah, no thanks. I autox to have fun. That's not fun. So, I'm spending my time hitting up track days and hanging at the local Kart tracks to get my fix in. I'll be driving up to Vegas for one or two events this year for fun and to hang with friends but basicaly no AutoX for me this year.
Umm strike that last post regarding R-S3s in our size... Check this out: Hankook Ventus R-S3 I think I need a moment to clean up... :ihih:
I'm starting in a couple of weeks. The 1st event is one of the clubs that run the 2 mile course on the runways. Like I've said before tho I don't run with SCCA and never plan to. They are just way too serious for me. I just want to hang out with friends and have fun. Also there are over 8 auto-x clubs within an hours drive from me not including SCCA. One of the clubs I drive with also do hill climb races and I may try that this year. I won't be driving the Mini as much this year as I picked up a Miata and will be driving that allot.
The local clubs here have quite a few serious folks who go to nationals regularly but at the local level they're all pretty laid back...lot's of friendly coaching and general help and they've never had protests at the local level since I've been here. I'll do a couple of divisional's this year and see what they're like...probably pretty serious. But I'm having great fun and learning a lot.
Grey, i am really glad you are keeping this as a running journal of your personal experience in STX. Personally, i had to move on/stay in SMF. There is one driver/car in particular here in STX, that i have zero chance against. Damn r32 built to the hilt, and the driver(s) are VERY good. But i just (re)came across this photo of me, at essentially my first auto-x, and thought i would share: (it stayed)
Thanks. Several folks have said they'd like to continue this thread so I will for awhile. I just don't want to bore anyone. I've already learned a bunch from everyone. Great pic...shows clearly the concept of "attacking the back" of the cone and keeping it tidy. Here's one of the ideas I've been grappling with... On the track, which, of course, infers much higher speeds than autox, it is an essential element of driving to determine when an "early apex" vs a "late apex" approach (attack) for a turn is most appropriate. The conventional wisdom is that hitting a late apex is most important when the turn leads to a longer straight. The idea is to come out of the turn at a higher speed earlier since that higher speed will become cumulative with the continued acceleration afforded by the longer straight. A late apex lengthens the straight. A counter argument is made for the use of the early apex approach. Of course, it works. That's why we practice that so much on the track...hunting constantly for that confounded "line." In autox I'm learning the distinction is less important. Essentially, there are very few "straights" significant enough to warrant a dramatically different approach to different turns. It is true to some extent but not much. Hence the expression "attack the back of the cone" which is a term many of the more successful national champs use to teach technique. What I'm interpreting is the idea that each turn, whether it's a lead into a slightly longer "straight" or not is approached in a very similar way. Another term used in conjunction with attack the back is keep your corners "tidy." Together they infer that each turn should be attacked with a bias toward what you could call a "late apex"...that is, attack the back, and it should be tidy, which is close. Even as you're looking at smoothing out the turns to keep the car more stable and the engine appropriately revved you should do so with an eye to hitting each cone aggressively as if it were a somewhat late apex situation. Another popular description of this idea is to "position" the car at each turn such that upon the point of "passing" the cone you're already pointed at the optimum entry point to the next turn. Wow, that came off way too academic but I don't know how else to say it in words. Overall what I'm hearing is simply that autox speeds are lower than track speeds and the core techniques used for turns are more direct and therefore, somewhat different than on a track. Naturally the driver input is much more dramatic to position/attack/keep tidy each turn because they come on so much quicker but that input also has to be ultra smooth to keep the car settled and most efficient around the turn...no time to make up for a poor position or too hot of speed from one turn to the next. Hence, the practice on the track of "looking ahead" is even more critical/intense/harder-to-do in autox than on the track...at least for me. Another way of saying for me is the critical distinction between late and early apex for turns on a track is of slightly less importance in autox. Whether this makes sense or not it has been helping me drive much better recently.
I'm right there with you. It's what I call the "attack" mentality. On a track you don't want that. You have room to move/think/adjust. At an autox you hve to attack each turn with energy and wield that with smooth control and, as you put it, "tidy" placement. However, what you learn at the track applies to autox because you will learn to see the line better and you can use that in autox. Now, if you really want me to blow your mind add in this bit of data: Go Karting. You will learn about the two different Karting lines. One is just like the "racing line" that applies at tracks and autox'es. The other is called the "grip line" This is the line where you can keep your foot in it the longest and the kart will hold. Now this may seem like the same as the racing line but it's not. It's also not always the fastest as you run a longer distance usually than the traditional race line. In order to get quick you have to know both and figure out which one to use and where. This is much like autox when you drive on sticky tires. You can cut some distance (race line) or you can add more speed and run wider(grip line) to get through the section. The way you decide is how that extra speed and different entry point effects your set-up for the next section. How do you decide? Walk the course. Run the course while doing a good job looking ahead. Adjust as needed.
Redbeard, Yes I like the way you said everything above. I've not done any serious karting but I can see how that experience would be very foundational. Getting kids started very young in karts would lay a base of experience that would pay off for years and going back to it for refreshers would be great. Lot's of pro's get started that way. There is a local facility I've been intending to try out that has real karts but I've just not done it yet.
Not much has changed. The event this last weekend turned out much the same. The CRX I've discussed before beat me by 1.2s on a 38 sec course. My tires are dead and I wasn't driving well. He was as usual. I got too aggressive and sloppy. I've finalized a deal with Werkin Mini on a set of used AST 5100's, Swift Springs (400 lbs/in) and all the fixings. I'm going with IE Fixed camber plates instead of the Vorshlag Variable plates for now. The IE's will result in between 1.8 and 2.0 degrees neg camber which will be a great improvement. The ride will be more compatible with daily driving compared with the Vorshlag's as well. I'll move to Vorshlag's next year if needed. They're redoing the product for the R56 anyway so I want to wait and see what the improvements are. K-huevo says driving the new set up will be like night and day. He drove this set up for the original owner and said the handling was very impressive. I'll drive the new set up with my current Star Specs for several weeks before I mount new tires. Leaning toward the RS-3's for now... Once it is all tuned up, hopefully by June, I'll be on a strong technology footing and that should help close the gap. No more easy pickin's in STX in central Texas. :ihih::ihih::ihih:
Nice. Sounds good. I'm getting a set of R-S3s in the next couple of weeks for some track days I have coming up. I run into the over driving problem at AutoX'es. It's hard but you have to have patience and let the course come to you. Easy for me to say but I still over-drive the car myself at events. LOL. Generally to slow down the attack and actually get better speed at an autox you want to late apex and make sure you are looking ahead to set the car up correctly for the next turn. That seems like a TON of negative camber though. Are you sure you want to run that much? (I really don't know. I'm still running stock alignment) Can you fill me in a bit on the tire wear and contact patch effect?
-2 is nothing! Many get even tire wear with a daily driver with that camber and 0 toe. Even more for auto-x would be better.
Well my reference is on a track. With my stock front & rear camber I'm chewing almost exactly the middle to the outside of the tire from hard turns. With sidewall flex and tread squirm taken into effect it's in need of -0.75 to -1 degree more of camber from whatever the stock setting is for the front and a -0.5 degree more in the rear for a better contact patch in a hard turn. I've never looked into the camber or toe of a stock R56. Hence, why I was wondering if -2 degrees was excessive. I DD mine as well and I get very even wear across the tread with stock alignment. If stock is already -1 degree then it makes sense that an additional degree is completely within reason. I just don't know because I've never delved into it.