Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Spring has Spung time to upgrade the suspension

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by 00zero, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. jeff@txwerks

    jeff@txwerks New Member

    May 4, 2009
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    Here are a few comments on your questions. The Vorshlag/TSW front camber plates make a hug difference in the turns, keeping the MINI very flat.

    The AST rear upper mounts are a solid mount with a giant spherical bearing allowing the strut to articulate. The result is super flat turns with the rear feeling like it is on rails. Since they are a solid mount you will get a slightly harsher ride in the rear, not bad just not like the muchy OEM mounts.

    Poly bushings on the rear trailing arms make a bug difference - very crisp in the turns.

    Koni Yellows are quite harsh with OEM springs, however many customers have told us they are very smooth with the TSW perfromance springs.

    We have tried all the coil-over setups and found KW to be the best setup for the MINI - if you setup the valving and spring rates correctly. That is why we sell a private label KW made specifically to TSW specifications. Keep in mind that we also discount supsension packages with multiple items.

    [email protected]
     
  2. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

    May 6, 2009
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    Many things contribute to how flat the MINI body remains in corners, a few of them are roll couple percentage, roll center height, spring and damper rates, anti-roll bar stiffness and the kinematic design of the suspension links. A camber plate enables more of the tire’s contact patch to do its job; not prevent body roll. A tire’s sidewall stiffness can have an impact on how much the body dips into a corner, but its relationship is far less than mechanical dynamics, and the amount of “give†in a fixed plate’s rubber, has less effect still. However true that a solid suspension mount on the strut shaft allows the strut to perform without energy loss via a rubber bushing, its contribution to flat cornering is way down the list.
     
  3. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2009
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    not a significant contributing factor
     
  4. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Sep 8, 2009
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    I for one wish Bilstein made thier HD dampers for the R53, and not just the sports. Enough that I'm thinking of buying the R56 Bilstein HDs and modifying the rears to make them fit.

    Those with stock or TSW springs, IE Fixed plates, and maybe a 19mm rear bar would be an awesome set-up. Maybe split the difference between Koni Yellow and Koni FSD.

    But I'm also still tempted to try KW V1 or the Koni coilovers with custom linear springs. I'd prefer the extra travel from that.

    - Andrew
     
  5. 00zero

    00zero New Member

    Oct 2, 2009
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    OK, i managed to make at least a few decisions

    Ireland fixed camber (for a dd these will suffice)
    Poly FCAB (stock is shot)
    Poly trailing arm brushing (stock is a bit squishy)
    TSW lower rear control arms
    I already have TSW 19mm RSB

    my stock struts are about shot.

    Now the decisions.

    TSW springs with new struts, koni yellow or bilstein sport

    OR

    KV v1

    all the setups fall in my price range so the questions are...

    koni yellow vs bilstein sport, what is the diff?

    i have only used bilstein sports in the past (87 16v scirocco and 92 s4) and liked them the ride was firm but not rough. Is cost why no one uses them on minis, or are their other reasons?


    does the additional cost of the V1's equate to a significant increase in handling or less detriment to ride quality? How much so? (adj height doesn't matter to me but the full travel and better dampening, sound advantageous)

    Thanks for answering all my questions everyone i got a bit off track letting my imagination run away with my pocket book. Both have been put into perspective and chained in the basement :eek:ut:

    Thanks,
    Jonathan
     
  6. Newbs49

    Newbs49 New Member

    May 23, 2009
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    Contact the guys from TSW. I would think the ride would be better with the KW1 with the right spring rate and better handling.
     
  7. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

    May 6, 2009
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    Bilstein does make rear HD dampers for the R53. Bilstein HDs are ok if the priority is street use; SPs if performance is the primary focus. I have stock springs over SPs; extra travel is available by virtue of SPs internal bump stops up front and the firm rebound curve on the SPs rears is as effective as a stiffer rear sway bar for reducing understeer at turn-in. I went a step further by having my fronts minor re-valved (but still not as soft as HDs) and my 18mm rear bar is plenty stiff enough for balance. I have custom fixed camber plates with only -1 degree camber up front at stock spring height.
     
  8. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Sep 8, 2009
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    How would you compare your Bilstein Sport with stock springs to stock in terms of ride quality? IMO stock ride quality sucks (i have s-lites with non-runflat bridgestone grids that i can't wait to get rid of).

    The Bilstein site only shows the sports for the rear, but I'll contact my Bilstein guy and check when the time comes for me to make a purchase. I will be trying stock with cut bumpstops and IE fixed plates first.

    I've been in time attack cars with much "stiffer" suspensions that are more compliant than the stock Mini S suspension.

    - Andrew
     
  9. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    Ride quality is good for me, nothing near the oscillation the stock strut goes through, definitely firm with anticipatory puckering when I see rough road ahead.

    The Tire Rack carries the HD rears, but I don't see an advantage for going softer at the rear axle, that would add to the inherent understeer of the MINI.
     
  10. 00zero

    00zero New Member

    Oct 2, 2009
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    After much deliberation the thoughts of sharp turn-in and flat & neutral handling have got the best of me. Ride quality be darned i have made up my mind.

    Koni yellows

    TSW springs

    Poly Control and trailing arm brushing

    Vorshlag camber plates

    AST rear mounts (if they will fit with koni, somethng about "on rails" gets my motor going)

    Now if only the springs were in stock.

    Here is to being a Guinea pig and thanks for all the info.

    -Jonathan
     
  11. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Sep 8, 2009
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    Enjoy, post the results!

    - Andrew
     
  12. 00zero

    00zero New Member

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Well with TSW on the outs and it going to be a while before their springs are back in stock.

    I called up Dinan to find that there suspension packages are on sale.

    Drop is about 1/2" and while the rates are propitiatory they are linear and are about 20 - 25% stiffer.

    So i picked up Dinan springs and koni yellows for a good deal.

    I can't see a reason to run more then 2deg camber on the street so i am going with the Ireland fixed. I should end up in the 1.5deg area.

    The drop is low so there shouldn't be a need for rear control arms.

    AST doesn't make the rear mount to fit a koni shock. I am sure you could replace the spherical bearing to get it to fit but i decide that i am not that hardcore.

    I'm am still going to do poly fcab and trailing arm brushings.

    Anyone know if the old fcab can be gotten out with the hack saw trick (cut a pice out and hit it with a hammer)?

    Thanks for all the help everyone.

    -Jonathan
     
  13. 00zero

    00zero New Member

    Oct 2, 2009
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    ok, after two weekends all is in.

    i will reserve final judgment till i get an alignment, but it feels good so far and i expect it to be better after and alignment.

    :)

    -Jonathan
     

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