Stick vs Manual: the debate goes on

Discussion in 'MINI' started by Steve, May 4, 2012.

  1. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Stick-Shifts Are Back, But Automatics Give Best Gas Mileage (GreenCarReports.com)
    Full article here.
     
  2. Zapski

    Zapski Well-Known Member

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    #2 Zapski, May 4, 2012
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
    When the Zombie Apocalypse comes, and you're running away from a ravenous horde, do you want you last words after jumping into the first available car to be "Crap, it's a stick."

    Case closed. Learn to drive a stick or be Zombie food.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    In the words of Larry the Cable Guy: "I don't care who you are that's funny right there!" :lol:

    I've read more than one story about would-be car thieves / jackers giving up because they couldn't use a clutch. They're also usually stupid enough to not wear gloves, thus leaving nice prints all over the object of their frustration. Always makes me laugh. Yet another reason to own a car with a manual transmission. :yesnod:
     
  4. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    I still have a problem with calling DSG-type transmissions as automatics. We need a new word to describe them or start calling the old slush-boxes something else.

    You really can't call a DSG box and a manual different trannies, they are basically the same thing. One can simply be controled by a computer and the other can't.
     
  5. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    My wife doesn't drive stick shift and we needed a car that she could drive when her primary car was down for repairs, so we were in the market for a MINI with an automatic transmission.

    I gotta say, the automatic is really good, I can put it in manual mode and shift it just as fast as I can shift a manual. I love the paddle shifters and even use them in automatic mode. I've read many posts in which people say that they have more control with a manual, I think those people have never driven a MINI with an automatic. I'm really glad I got it!

    If I start jones'n for a stick, I'll just drive one of my other cars.

    Dave
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    I've never driven or played with one but all the tech descriptions I've read show a DGS-type to be an "automatic" (or whatever the term should be, I take your point) that can be driven like a manual rather than the other way round. If you know of a good source to improve my education, please point me to it. They're also completely sequential in manual mode, right?
     
  7. farkus

    farkus Active Member

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    I think that most automatic drivers should at least make an effort to learn to drive an automatic...yeah, an automatic!

    It's either gas pedal or brake pedal, P or D and sometimes R, but there are a few gears there that can be utilized for downhill driving or just slowing down. I can't stand following a car down a mountain riding it's brakes, or the constant shine of brake lights on a busy (not stopped, just busy) interstate highway.

    My father told me you should never have to use your brakes on an interstate unless traffic slows rapidly or stops completely and I've followed that advice for 40 years...I really wish others had been taught that.

    Oh and my wife, our son, nor I have ever owned an automatic and never will. We like holding onto a knob. :ihih:

    Edit: my wife actually chose a manual over the DSG in her Audi. She tried both and liked the manual better.
     
  8. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    My way of looking at it is...... If it has a torque converter, it's and automatic. If it doesn't, it's a manual..... I'll stick my neck out and say a DGS is a hybrid manual..... :idea:
     
  9. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    My take is that if it doesn't have a clutch pedal, it's an automatic.

    Dave
     
  10. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Tesla Roadster
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Urp..... Maybe time for a re-set.....

    "That kind of motor response eliminates the need for a complicated transmission, so the Roadster has just three gears -- two forward gears and one reverse gear. Shifting is manual, but there's no clutch. That also means there's no stalling or "jerk" when you shift between gears"

    No clutch.... No clutch pedal, yet it's a manual....

    Tesla Motors - FAQs
     
  11. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    Nah, Automatic!:biggrin5:

    Dave
     
  12. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    It comes down to whether or not a torque converter is used. The DSG (and others) are simply a manual tranny that uses a computer controlled clutch (either a single or the double-clutch kind). There are still conventional "gears" being used. And yes they are sequential by design, but you can go up and down very quickly.

    Nice BMW video.......
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3168HrHGeLw]how does BMW M3 DCT(double clutch transmission) works - YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    No, It comes down to whether you have to shift it or not, it doesn't matter how it does it.

    Dave
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #14 Steve, May 4, 2012
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
    There's more than one way to look at it.

    Is it "an automatic"? There's the rub, that's not just a word, it's a 2-word term applied to a particular type of transmission, the old slush box. Anything that's significantly different mechanically and significantly improved at the operator end is a different animal and needs a different name. I.e., don't call it an automatic.

    Never mind what the bits and pieces look like or how they work together, what does automatic mean? If you're talking about a transmission, that means the shifting is automated. Do I have to shift it, manually? No, it's done for me, automatically. If so, it's an automated or automatic shifting system...an automatic transmission.
     
  15. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    But you can do both...........
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Maybe a DSG is an automanual.....

    Semantics.

    Feeling my own way through the gears entertains me, I like running a stick shift through a gate, and clutch = fun. :Thumbsup:
     
  17. Rawhyde

    Rawhyde Active Member

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    I agree. If it doesn't have a clutch pedal, I won't buy it. Even if the top line DSG (or whatever the proper terminology) outperforms a real manual, I'm still not interested.

    There are two factors at play for me:

    1. The true manual is simply more enjoyable for me. This is purely subjective and YMMV.

    B. in my experience, a true manual has significantly less maintenance cost. In my family, we have fried two automatic transmissions. One in a 1986 Cutlass. In 1995, it cost about $600 for a rebuild. The car had 35K miles. The other was in a 1994 Impala SS. This one died at 108,000 miles. I replaced it outright with a brand new unit from the dealer. I did the work myself, and it set me back about $2,000. Neither of these transmissions were maintained "by the book". The book calls for long service intervals, but I changed the fluid and filters every 20K miles. I have replaced one clutch. It was in a 1989 Camaro, and it had 197K miles. I overpaid for genuine GM parts to the tune of $305 because they had a proven track record for long life and did the work myself.

    As long as God grants me good enough health to do my own gear changing, I'm gonna do it!
     
  18. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    But we aren't talking about the slush-box auto's, these are manual trannys that simply engages the clutch and changes gear by computer vs a lever. Impossible to miss a shift and over rev an engine or to ruin a clutch by resting your foot on the pedal or holding your car in place by slipping the clutch. I will never buy a slush-box auto, but a DSG-type is definitely a possibility. It's a different kind of fun to fly thru the gears via a paddle or a "slap-stick" lever.

    I like the "Automanual"......!
     
  19. Crashton

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    Is a CVT a manual?:wink: No torque converter, just a slipping belt between a variable sized pulley set up. Yuck!!!
     
  20. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    :prrr:

    :biggrin5:
     

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