Most liked posts in thread: Stick vs Manual: the debate goes on

You don't need any help MM. You and Crash are doing just fine on your own.

Jim

 

2360 auto models? Does that seen really high?

 

Not really, just look at how many variants many brands have. For example, there are 19 variants of the Porsche 911, 8 of the Panamera, 6 Cayenne, 3 Cayman and 2 Boxster. That's 38 total there. Mercedes also has 38 different variants. BMW has 63 different variants. So yeah, when you start adding all these up 2360 is not that far off base.

 

Yeah I figured they were counting every trim level, still seemed a bit high though.

 

Another huge difference when it comes to Autos is the programming.

The GTI and Jetta Sportwagen both have a DSG, but from my experience with them, they're programmed quite differently.

Even in 'manual' mode in the TDI, the DSG shifted itself notably before redline... and of course, did so at the same moment that I was telling it to shift. So, it shifted twice. :mad2:

So, that's all the information I needed to know that I will never buy a DSG Sportwagen. Sure, the HARDWARE is and theoretical capability eclipses a manual, but the software isn't written to take advantage of that.

That being said, it's a TDI Sportwagen, not an R8 GT, so I understand somewhat why they program it differently... but it's not for me.

 

Drive or be driven

 

Well it seems to me that the difference in engine characteristics between the gas & diesel engine would demand different shift programs for the DSG. My guess is the torque of the diesel might tear the DSG apart if it was not programmed to shift in a kinder gentler way than a GTI does.

On another note:

 

Again with the attitude......

Why is it that stick shift owners seem to think they're somehow superior to those with automatics? By what possible logic?

The only thing you do differently than me is push the clutch pedal down a million times, and this makes you better how?

Get over yourselves......there is nothing inherently superior about your driving over mine in my automatic, and if you want to spend some time on a road course with me, I will show you exactly why.

I am all for personal preference, and I don't look down on manual shift drivers, so why you think you have to cop this superior attitude is beyond me.

And BTW, my Jag is a stick.....so now what?

 

You are right about difference in engine characteristics. However the TDI torque is maximum at low revs, 1500-2400 or so. I drive both an R60 S and a 2009 VW Sportwagen TDI, both manual. Fact is the TDI doesn't accelerate faster if you rev it to red line. It seems to gain little to use more than 4000 RPM as a shift point for max acceleration. I think that is the reason the DSG versions shift well below red line at full accelerator pedal.

Both cars are fun, in different ways.

 

For reference: the 2.0T TFSI engine in GTI's make max torque starting at 1800rpm and hold that max torque through 5000rpm.

 

....and its really hard to dial or send text messages when you'e having to do all that gear stuff.

Hey, I just noticed that the guage thingie over the steering wheel gets to higher numbers sometimes, then it goes back down. The higher it gets, the more noise the car makes. It must be some sort of noise meter. Cool.... I always notice high tech things like that.

 

I agree that shifting at 4000 rpm MAY provide the fastest acceleration... but my point is:

Why bother having paddle-shifters if the car is going to shift itself whenever it wants anyway?

 

Good point; maybe they are still useful for downshifting on grades or before entering turns.