Hmm I can chime in here. I also think you're walking on the razors edge here. After seeing some sh1t hot tunes pulling over 20+ psi on the stock N14 engine and watching a few other guys on the other site decimate some pistons, I was very cautious with tuning on my track toy. 17psi MAX is such a huge improvement over the stock tune on the R56 MCS. At that point, I called it "done" and just focused on seat time 100%. Yes power is addicting, but I just didn't want to push the reliability that far down the toilet. I totally agree with what you're doing with the suspension on your car but I just do not have a nice warm feeling about pushing lots of boost on a stock N14/N18 engine. If you had a JCW engine with lower compression, you can have a little more but still... pistons pistons pistons!
I don't think anyone is trying to say the R53 is better (I'm being a good boy). The point is that the N14/N18 motor does not have as much head room for tuning. That's all. 20psi is a lot of pressure, I would never go there unless I knew the bottom end could take it. How fast you want to go = how much money you have.
That's my thinking. Shave time with driver time, suspension, and tires. The tune is just a fun thing to have but I would never want to be at the point where I was worrying about reducing the reliability of the car every time I was pushing it all day at the track.
I don't get the talk about "head room" and the engine being close to its limits. People need to understand that when people run these 20+psi maps with rediculous amounts of torque it puts huge stress through the engine, is an engine straight out the factory designed for 11psi supposed to be able to deal with 20+ psi with pistons and valves covered in carbon? R53s don't have issues with the rods as they don't make much torque. It took quite a while for people/companies to get to grips with the R53 and recently the R56 tuning/modding options have been getting better. More forged/hybrid builds are taking place, people are also starting to test different cams and at the same time the quality of the tunes is getting better. Too many people chase numbers and think that their bolt ons and aggressive tune is the way forward. This is the problem. It's all too easy to start typing about people blowing engines and melting pistons, just ask them what they were trying to achieve and how they did it. At the end of the day, you don't buy a mini for power lol...
Simple. They wanted to go faster and they choose to do that by boosting the engine even more. Result... premature failure of piston ring lands. Ultimate result... you're in the hole 7 grand and you're potentially done for multiple seasons. Let's not get started about what the spouses will think:eek6:
I bought my R56 over the R53 because of the local availability of used cars that had the options I wanted, at the right price. That said this is a street car for me, and the bump in MPG was nice and I'm a fan or turbos. I think if Carbon was not an issue, that helps A LOT. So I will be blasting mine yearly, can't hurt. I think the torque coming on so quickly may be a factor as George says, unlike the R53 which builds. But kind of sucks to tune your torque happy R56 like an R53. Who ~doesn't~ want that torque down low and area under the graph? But it may take it's toll. For the record I think 20+ PSI is over the top. Especially if you run a JCW or Hybrid turbo that is flow more CFMs for a given PSI.
Funny how these discussions always end up a R53 vs R56 battle. They are both fun. We're all MINI lovers that like our track time.
Head room, not as much room for added TQ/HP. I think we are saying the same thing. countryboyshane is right on target. I said earlier that to push lots of boost you need to strengthen the bottom end. Not to turn this into a R53 vs R56 debate but the bottom end of the R53 is stronger. Thats not taking anything away from the R56 its a MINI and I love seeing how people tune their R56 too.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with the R53, nor do I care how it would react if it had a bunch of low end torque or a turbo, etc., I know it is a proven car and that's cool. R56 or R53, I always tend towards the underdog at the track.:yesnod:
The first part simply isn't true. Pulleys came out, with a nice bump in performance, literally the day after the first MCS came off the line. Within year two, people were putting in cams, injectors, headers, CAI, and BVH's, tying it together with a tune, and making big power. It happened relatively fast, and the hope was the Prince would be just as mod friendly. But tie in the draconian ECU, and the fact that there just isn't much more to be had from the engine, and it simply isn't the case. The R56 platform JUST ISN'T A FRIENDLY PLATFORM TO MOD. It's as simple as that. I was specifically warned of this when I bought my car--I had the option of an R53 (I bought and MCS, I should have bought the GP), or waiting a few months for the R56. I was strongly encouraged by a factory type at BMW to stick with the R53 if I wanted to play with the engine; the SC was going to be a better option for what I wanted to do (track). I'm glad I took that advice. The R56 has been a deathly slow platform to mod--look at where we are at the end of the R56 cycle versus where we were at the end of the R53 cycle with regard to power modifications. It's not even close. The second part is true, about "what they were trying to do"--that applies to both the R53 and the R56; plenty of R53 engines have been blown trying to stretch the limits. But the truth is there is a MUCH larger limit to stretch for the R53. Some people take this as "bashing the R56", but it's not--it's simply the truth. The R53 isn't perfect. It's heavy for what it is, and as a daily driver, the R56 is definitely more comfortable/more refined, if that's what you're after. The third part is true, sort of. Handling comes first, but when the chassis can handle more, people are going to want more. Set up properly, a MINI can handle 250WHP easily, and the car is pure bliss on the track. That's where I'm at now, I will probably go higher, but the car feels perfectly balanced between handling and power at the moment.
I don't agree with this. You can fit a decat, 10-15whp gained, fit a front mount and map and add another 30whp. Add a decent intake and you've got another 5whp. Cams were fitted to a car in the uk and it picked up 10whp without any mapping. Install meth/water injection and it cleans the engine. A car with a hybrid was mapped yesterday and went from 156whp to 210whp. I'm no scientist but that quite a jump in performance. People have picked up 7whp from changing the coil packs. People are only just starting to test out port and polished heads and BVHs so more potential gains there. If you want serious power you need a fully forged engine, how many people are willing to pay for this? however a well setup 200-220whp R56 is a great car without needing to forge the engine.
Paltry gains on the stock R56 engine, compared to what can be done on the stock R53 engine. Those are just minor modifications, with the exception of the front mount; they aren't making big power, and again, you're talking BHP not WHP. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Water/Meth is great. You need it to keep the valves clean, another wonderful design feature of the Prince. You may be right that there are things coming down the road for the R56, time will tell. But the truth is you can get 250HP reliably AT THE WHEELS on the R53 without touching the internals, and that could be done two years into the R53 cycle. You can't on the R56, unless something changes, and here we are at the end of the R56 cycle. I stand by the statement that the R56 is not a mod friendly platform, and to add to that, BMW purposely made it that way. The ECU proves it (compare it to what Toyota/Subura did with the FR-S/BRZ) . The R56 has been a bane to the hardcore tuners/modders from day one. Just ask them if you don't believe me.
Who is them? I speak to my tuner in the uk quite often, he tunes all the uk challenge cars, also starting to tune quite a few cars in the USA. He is nothing but positive and keen to show what he can do after a lot of hard work. So far his results have been very good. You need to remember that the majority of people mapping R56s are just buying them and loading them into people's cars. Very few are selling their own work.
Then why would you say your talking bhp not whp. My car has only ever been dyno'd in whp. Edit: seen your edit, I was talking bhp before comparing factory numbers to other cars factory numbers.
And the results are? And with what mods? Granted, the UK is ahead of the U.S. in the mod department, I'll give you that, but the results here simply aren't there yet on this side of the pond. The flip side is, the R56 is so far behind, I wonder wether it's even worth it for a tuner to mess with it anymore, it's been a headache for them--at least over here, or move on to the F56, if that one is more ECU friendly (which is doubtful). They can tune R53's in their sleep, but there are fewer of them each day. Kind of tough gig for a tuner at the moment.
The results is the performance and feedback of the uk challenge cars working well unlike in previous seasons... Like I said, tuned a MCS with a hybrid from 156whp to 210whp with 15/16 psi boost level. Also quite a few customers on NAM running DNA tunes that are extremely happy with the map compared to previous attempts by other companies. Next week he's tuning a fully forged R56 with cat cams and a large turbo with an aggressive tune so that will be very interesting. He's also tuned my R56 to 200whp/230wtq and it's fantastic. Perfect flat boost curve and linear throttle map. If I want the map changed I email him and he sends a tweaked map.