Brakes Wheels 1st Gen Tires Stoptech over Wilwood

Call M/A vendor Todd at TCE. I asked him about StopTech, Brembo and AP before purchasing from him. He had nothing bad to say about the others. He explained the differences and left me to decide. Tires will almost always be the limiting factor in braking performance. I've been very happy with my TCE/willwoods on the street and doing DEs. They will remain as I transition to W2W racing.

 

The rotors on the stoptech are ALOT bigger--14 lbs worth of rotor.

What exactly are you after? "Stopping power" isn't really going to be an issue; the brakes are only as good as your pads and tires; if you want to stop quicker, start with tires, the stock brakes are more than adequate for runflats on the street. If you're running R-comps on the track, then a BBK comes in handy--not because it's got incredible stopping, but because it's consistent; you won't fade your brakes as easily. And a BBK is easier to modulate on the track. Doesn't really come into play on the street.

I run the TSW BDM kit, and it works great for the track (the R53 JCW brakes didn't, although that was without any cooling), it's there lap after lap. Around town (with a street pad), it's really not that much better than stock.

So if it's a street car, I wouldn't bother. If you're going to hit the track, then a BBK may be worth your while. Talk to Todd.

 

Actually around town or on the highway a BBK with a more aggressive track type pad compound is worse then OEM. These types of pads need some heat in them to work best and highway driving especially in wet conditions don't have the heat needed. Makes for interesting times on short exit ramps...

 

The ST kits are 330 x 28 (or 12.97 x 1.10) vs the TCE Plus 4 at 13.1 x 1.10 actually. Both are about 14lb castings. The P3 at .810 (or optional .960 track use rotor) varies from 11 to 14lbs also.

The reason I sell but perhaps 1 of the P4's a year is two fold; the car doesn't need this much iron to be effective 'cept for the the most extreme track day users and secondly, the wide rotor/caliper combo has a huge impact on wheel fit greatly limiting the choices to use without spacers.

 

Very true, but I don't run track pads on the street. Running a street pad on the BDM, for street driving (for me at least), it's similar to stock in performance. On the track, that's a whole different story. But you're right, running a track pad on the street isn't a great idea, but it doesn't seem to stop alot of people from doing it....

 

I will agree in principle but there are aggressive track pads with excellent cold characteristics. Wilwood PolyMatrix B pads for one. Their street downside is that when cold, they squeal like a banshee.

 

When I did the research, I went with TCE/Wilwood 13 x 0.81 BBK mainly due to the cost v. benefit tradeoff. The Wilwood BBK satisified my goals at a lower cost. I have been happy with the Wilwoods for street and track. I swap pads for street and track use.

 

It is a good idea to swap between a street and track pad. The Wilwood caliper is very easy to do that with. When I prep for a track day it takes about 20 min to swap out the tires and front pads. The pad swap is quick and easy.

 

So many folks get a BBK for the wrong reasons. Remember that RSR uses the R53 JCW (R56) caliper with race pads and rotor.

 

If you've never been on the track before, I'd recommend a high performance street tire--Hankook Ventus, Falken Azenis are two of my favorites--they're very, very good for the price.

There are other good tires as well, some of them get VERY expensive, others are gonna chime in, but those are about the best "bang for the buck" tires out there. I run R-comps when it's dry, but I put on my street tires--Falken Azenis--when it's wet, and they are a TON of fun. Hankook's are actually higher rated, but I found the ratings after I purchased...


Most important thing is to get quality seat time; as you do more, you'll go for more aggressive tires.

It really is a learning process--there are different ways to get MINI around the track quickly; you have to find out what works best for you--that will dictate a ton of things...

 

While at the root of it I understand what you're driving at, but not everyone has the same reason either. I can't really think of any real wrong reason. Just different ones. The key imho is ending up with one that best meets your needs.

Remember my earlier comment Todd's Rule of Three:
1. Wheel fit.
2. Intended use.
3. Budget.

Answer: Pick two.

 

Nooot the greatest proofing of the statement. While RSR has awesome success w/ that set-up it is mainly due to the Chosen rotors ($700 option), which have a design that arent even found on most of the 'cost-effective' BBKs.

Another HUGE point that should be factored into them using 'stock' calipers,; they are restricted to such per the rules they race under. I cant say they would go a different route if allowed to, but i imagine they would consider it.

 

The point being that you don't need a BBK to be competitive. And yes they are req'd to run the stock JCW caliper, but they are also successful at it. The rotors are only part of the story, the pads chosen and the cooling available are a bigger part.

 

1) They arent required to run the JCW specific caliber, it just needs to be AAAAA factory caliper. JCW was chosen by RSR for obvious reasons. (Just make the rules clear to people who dont know )

2) It depends on the arena you compete in to say you dont NEED a BBK to compete. RSR competes against people on stock calipers as well.

3) Agreed about the pads and cooling, but even though that is only part of the braking system and not a 100% cure all.

4) If the r53 JCW caliper is soooooo amazing and all anybody needed, then why were the r53 Challenge cars spec'ed with AP Racing BBKs?


The way i think of it; you enter into a knife fight and everyone is required to have only a 5" blade. You have that oooonnneeee guy who walks in with a 4' sword.... Now he may not win the fight, but his chances are A LOT higher then everyone elses. lol

 

To the OP.......just make sure you are getting what you need and not what someone else is trying to sell you.

 

Depends entirely on what kind of driving you will be doing.

Are you doing track days? What kinds of tires are you using? Mainly daily driver with the occasional weekend twisty excursion?