1st Gen R53 Cooper S Most liked posts in thread: Supercharged vs Turbo

:cornut: After several hours of researching this subject( superchargers vs turbochargers/superchargers all kinds/turbochargers all kinds/exhaust manifolds all kinds/economy/street/racing) at a large number of Professional Sites and not wanting to start a 'Fist Fight', I'll just say; choose the one you want, stick with it, and never listen to the 'other side.' I will leave the opinion and address of 2 of the sites.

1. 88total.com/techpagesupervsturbo
Max Performance: Turbochargers prevail over Superchargers. With speeds as high as 150krpm, boost levels near 30psi, new light weight designs, they are capable or producing more power than Superchargers.
2. automotivearticles.com/supercharger vs turbocharger
...............the Turbocharger reigns supreme in terms of engine power output.

Whew!
Jason

 

:cornut: Thanks Paul.

Jason

 

I think that's the real answer in a nutshell, and having owned both, I would rate my current R53 as vastly superior to my previous R56. I also currently have an R60, so I feel the difference every day. No contest.

But, like beauty, "feel" is in the eye of the beholder, so pick what you like.

 

Umm........think you may have forgot.......Top Fuelers.......:biggrin5:


From Wiki:

Superchargers
The supercharger can be a 14-71 type Roots blower although Screw blowers are also sometimes used. It has twisted lobes and is driven by a toothed belt. The supercharger is slightly offset to the rear to provide an even distribution of air. Absolute manifold pressure is usually 3.8-4.5 bar (56-66 PSI), but up to 5.0 bar (74 PSI) is possible. The manifold is fitted with a 200 psi burst plate. Air is fed to the compressor from throttle butterflies with a maximum area of 65 sq. in. At maximum pressure, it takes approximately 900 horsepower (670 kW) to drive the supercharger.

The calculated Power output of these engines is most likely somewhere between 8500 and 10,000 horsepower[citation needed] (approximately 4500-6000 kilowatts), which is about twice as powerful as the engines installed on modern Diesel locomotives, and approaches the power output of the largest aviation turboprop engines, with a torque output of approximately 6000 lbf·ft (8135 N·m) and a brake mean effective pressure of 80–100 bar (8.0-10 MPa).

For the purposes of comparison, a 2009 SSC Ultimate Aero TT, the world's most powerful production automobile, produces 1,287 hp (960 kW) of power and 1112 lbf·ft (1508 N·m) of torque.
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:crazy:

 

I saw a dragster that had a bunch of scuba tanks to supply compressed air to the engine. They must have had a monster regulator on them!

Hey, it only had to go 1/4 mile!

Dave

 

^^^ Sweet!

 

I guy I know with a drag car uses a water cooled intercooler... in the seat next to the driver is a large stainless steel tank of ice and water. He pumps ice water through the intercooler to sub cool the intake air into his turbo car. The turbo air intake is at least 5 inches in diameter. To get the chilled water as cold as possible, he adds salt like in an old ice cream maker.

 

Nope, I don't think that's the reason. Superchargers are not as fuel-efficient as turbochargers. As others have said, a supercharger draws crankshaft power to run it, whereas a turbocharger uses exhaust gas energy which would otherwise be used to make noise. The turbocharger still takes some energy from the engine in the form of exhaust back pressure, but it's a small proportion.

Some of the 1930s supercharged cars had two levers under the dash, one to clutch in the supercharger and another to open the exhaust valve that dumped the exhaust out the side before the silencer and tail pipe. I once followed an open top one being driven enthusiastically on the two-lane public road and the driver's overtaking technique was to reach down and move the levers to get power to overtake - plus the rise in noise level meant that most other drivers just pulled over anyway!

I don't think top fuel cars are a valid comparison since any turbo lag would be much more damaging for them than the small gain in top end power from a turbocharger - they might be a good application for the combined turbo/supercharger engines like VW make, but I suspect the complexity would prevent them being rebuilt fast enough for drag use.

 

I have seen some work with electrically driven compressors. The compressor is more like a Paxton style (like a turbo compressor but meant to run at lower rpm). So now we have the low back pressure, boost and response. The cost is probably closer to a sc vs a turbo.

Yes I want my cake and eat it too.:donut1:

 

Me to but I am holding out for the TVS 900 to replace my Heaton M45.

 

Does anyone know how much power or load the R53 SC uses? It could be an interesting project to electrify one.

 

Electrify? As in, complete battery power? My mechanic said he would love to get his hands on a wreck, stick in a battery powered motor.....thing is.....even though it would produce absolutely no exhaust emissions, still would not be legal in California, you tampered with the stock emission system :crazy:

 

No not an electric motor swap. Run the SC on an electric motor instead of the crank.

 

You have to love the wonderful state of Kalifornia. :lol:

So if you made a Mini a peddle car they would not allow you to register it as a zero emission vehicle. :lol::lol::lol:

Well at least you have sun and warm weather all the time.

 

Gottcha.......not sure you would gain anything? What ever drives it would suck power away...no? And the whole point of a SC is the instantaneous power that it can produce being run directly from the crank...no?

 

Yea, it has its moments here Wish it was warm all the time where I'm at, I'll have to introduce you to our wonder Tule fog that we get here a few months out of the year :crazy: :frown2:

 

Ok just make sure you come East for some snow.

 

I figure that if replacing the power steering pump with an electric motor saves power and gas then an electric SC should do the same

 

Maybe you could hook up a generator that turns by rubbing against the front tire, like they have for bicycles to run the headlight. That could supply electricity to the electric motor that runs your electric supercharger!

But it would probably take the same, or more, horsepower as hooking the electric motor to the car's battery, or just running it off of the crankshaft!

Those automotive engineers aren't stupid ya know! rrr: :lol:

Dave