1st Gen R53 Cooper S Supercharged vs Turbo

Fat is a relative term. For me, "fat" means carrying an extra 50+ lbs. For a supermodel, it means carrying an extra 5 lbs.

(Though I agree... the R56 looks like an R53 that took a few too many trips through the buffet line)

 

:biggrin5::yesnod::wink2

hahahaha Damn you are right! :wink::frown2:

 

Ok, against my better judgment I an going to add my 2 cents worth.

We have 3 MINIs,

A 2004 MCS engine built and tuned by Hubie, well north of 220 WHP, coil overs, camber plates, sway bars, Wilwood 13" etc
A 2004 Stock JCW with the later JCW updates of Airbox and injectors, tuned by RMW, JCW suspension, JCW brakes.
A 2010 JCW Clubman pure stock engine wise, Eibach springs & sway bar, Koni FSD struts.

Based on these cars I have some insight into this question.
I like the R53 feeling with the SC, but the fact is, that I will always be looking at the rear bumper of the R56
The R53s feel faster, sound faster and put a bigger grin on my face, but the truth is the R56 JCW is just plain quicker.

Our club took about 8 MINIs to Bonneville a few years ago to run in the Standing start 1 mile course.
About 5 R53s 4 of them RMW tuned putting down anywhere from 230 to 250 WHP. The fastest of these could run about 135 in the mile.
All the R56s could run over 130 without breaking a sweat with an 09 JCW being on top.
We figured an R53 needed about 220 at the wheels to break the 130 barrier.
The R56 JCW could do it stock.

Just an indication of what we saw on the Bonneville flats.

I personally enjoy the R53 more than the R56 for fun, I prefer the R56 for longer trips, we have driven it from SoCal to the Dragon and back, plus MTTS and a trip to Canada. 40,000 miles in less than 2 years.

So take from this response what you will, again just my 2 cents worth,

Wild Bill

 

Lots has already been said in this thread but just thought I'd add...

I'm on my 3rd MINI, had:

05 R53 S
08 R56 S
and now back to an 06 R53 JCW GP

I had the R56 for 3 years and just under 60k miles. While I loved the thing, and it would blow the doors off my current GP and previous modded R53, I do not miss it much at all. Like others have said, the R53 is much more raw, pure, and mechanical. The R56 is more comfy, much better gas mileage, and softer everything. The steering feel between the 53 and 56 is night and day...with the R53 being much more direct and solid in feel. My R56 had around 270 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels...and there's just no way around the fact that torque will win races. I was always amazed at the cars I would beat or hang with. Even with the massive torque though, it would be much out of breath by 6k RPM...where on my GP that's where its pulling the hardest.

Driving dynamics differences aside...the R53 is argueably much more reliable. The R56 is a mess (all the [few] people who haven't had problems will come in and ***** at me now). But seriously, they are riddled with issues. Mine blew a motor right at 50k. Everytime I drove it I was worried about something going wrong. You can mod both the 56 and the 53, but the 53 will be much more reliable. Increase the boost in the 56 and you are flirting with trouble.

The R53 I can get in, beat the heck out of it, have a blast, and not worry.

In my opinion, for the true essence of what a MINI is supposed to be: R53 > R56....end of story. The R56 is a great car when a) you are just using it around town and want a quick, fun car b) you are covered under warranty. For more of a true driver's car experience and to have more reliable fun with modding, get the R53.

 

Love my R56. It is an S with the JCW mods. Fast, pulls hard, handles great. Only other mod is a Forge POV, which did wonders for low end pull.

And it looks sharp.

And it rides great.

And it handles like a dream.

So if you wanna get a little more fatigued "feeling" the road and "feel" like you are going faster, go with the R53.

If you want to be a bit more comfortable and ACTUALLY go faster, go with the R56.

 

Heh Heh Heh.....:cornut:

 

I love my R53, but this is a pretty good summary. One of the reasons I love the R53 is for the road feel and feedback that I get, which can be a PITA for daily driver use. I'd still pick it over an R56, though. It all comes down to personal preference.

I think we can all agree that there are few cars on the road for the price of a MINI where you get that same level of performance, fun and engagement. I'd take any MINI over a Camry or Accord... I haven't lost my soul yet.

 

:cornut: Love my Margi(08 R56 MCS/JCWm). Recently I got to drive Margi on Texas' new 85mph highway and I came up behind some one doing 75mph. Just a flick of the gas pedal with sport button and flew around him at 85mph instantly. Me, I like turbo. They are very proud of that highway at $6 a pop by the way.

Jason

 

I can do that without the sports button. R53 MINIS are always in sporty mode.

 

HERE HERE!!!

 

And your daily driven gas mileage shows it too.

 

When you having that much fun who cares about MPG!

 

Me. I can have fun and not get eaten alive by gas costs on my commute.

I will confess that my last track day I was getting about 14mpg... :blush2: :cornut:

 

:cornut: Go get'em Redbeard. Don't take any stuff off of those Stupor Charger people.:lol::devil:

Jason

 

I'm no engineer, But it is a known fact that the main problem with a turbo set up is upon shutdown the turbo is still spinning at between 100000 and 150000 R.P.M. without any oil going to the shaft bearings. These are built of special materials but without oil going to them at those high R.P.M.'s the bearings take a beating and are what usually cause a failure. There was a Biker back in the 1970's that won half ownership in a turbo company if he could devise a means of solving this problem. His answer was to install a electric pump with a timer that would feed oil to the turbo bearings for 5 minutes after he shut down his Harley and then switch off automatically thus providing engine oil to the bearings upon spindown. Oh and by the way he was a "Hessian" out of So.Cal. and could make it from L.A. to Vegas in a little over a hour and a half. And his bike would top out around 170 M.P.H.

 

There are things I really like about my R56 and there are some things that are kind of irritating.

GOOD
For a daily driver the gas mileage is very good. When I was taking it easy I could average 34 MPG.

Entry level drug to sports cars. The car handles exceptionally well from the factory. You get a lot of fun for the buck more than you will with Fiat or some other domestic compact junk.

The aftermarket for the R56 has greatly expanded over the past two years. It's not quite at the level of the R53, but you have a lot of good players in the game.

The fact that you can get about 210whp and 240ft-lbs of torque from an MCS with just a tune, bigger intercooler, and a free flowing exhaust is pretty impressive. With good driving skill, tires, and suspension the R56 is a very nasty track toy. It's fantastic how many high horsepower cars you can embarrass with it. You'll need to throw more money at a supercharged MINI to net these numbers, especially torque.

BAD
While peak torque is great, the torque curve of the engine is very "peaky". After 4000rpm the torque tapers off to redline very quickly. Out of corners it is great but on the straights the sudden lack of pull can be a little irritating. This is the curse of having a tiny little turbo. Big pull out of the gate and then it's gasping for air on the high end. A supercharged car does not have this problem. Table top flat curve all the way to redline.

Electronic throttle feel is not as responsive as it could be. Yes, there is sport mode, but there is still a noticeable lag between pedal movement and the response of the engine. You can buy a sprint booster to fix this but it should be tuned from the factory in the first place. I think all drive-by-wire cars have this problem, but for God's sake why can't they just make it as responsive as a throttle with a mechanical cable?! It's probably done to appeal to the mass market of people who really aren't hardcore drivers, but dang I want more!

The engine. It's direct injected. Sure this is great for improved performance and reduced fuel consumption. The issue is then carbon buildup in the intake ports and on the back of the intake valves. If this goes unaddressed for a long period of time it leads to performance problems and eventually misfires. All that carbon buildup creates hot spots in the combustion chamber too. Not good! Overall, it needs a lot of maintenance to keep things clean. Much more than the W11 engine in the R53:eek6:


At the end of the day the R56 is not a bad car. It's a preferential thing like most stuff. Do you like vanilla or chocolate ice cream? For me personally, once you drive in a supercharged car you will be craving for that flat torque curve and responsiveness of a supercharged engine. I know when my R56 breathes its last breath I want a supercharger again in my next fun car.

 

SC cars get about 8 mpg at the track.

 

Yep. I only get 12 MPG in my R53 on the track if it is raining !

 

Just came up with a quote for a grill badge for the topic of this thread:

R53
because
WHINE!
is
better
than
Woosh.

If someone can make one I'll buy it....