Terrible Police Car Wreck (Officer Survived)

Um. Ouch? ut:

 

Wow....that was some hit. Amazing he survived. However it does bring up that thorny question of the speeds some of our LEO's attain in the interest of "public safety".

 

What about the tree? Is no one here concerned about the tree?

 

Way too much speed responding to a foot chase. Officer needs to have his priorities and driving skills adjusted...

 

I work in Santa Maria. The tree I saw was OK but did lose some bark.
The speed limit on that street in that area is 30 or maybe 35.
When I saw the picture of the car I thought to myself he must have been going about 90 to do that damage. The accident occurred 4:30 AM so probably not many cars on the road but it was near the intersection of the two main streets in Santa Maria and the roads were wet. I have not seen any followup stories that specify the speed the vehicle was traveling.

 

Had it been your or I in the accident, the ticket would read:

Too Fast For Conditions.

Wonder if the officer in question will be receiving a ticky wicky?

:confused5:

 

Yes it's easy to say he was going too fast for a foot pursuit (as that's not any cause for emergency :confused5 but you have no idea what actually came over the radio that night. Obviously after the fact we all know it was a foot pursuit but that officer could have just been yelling a location or a direction of flight into the radio and the unknowns could be anything for a fellow officer that hears that. After all, the cop was chasing a burglary suspect, a violent crime where any weapons possessed by the suspect are likely but unknown. A call for assistance with a foot pursuit of a burglary suspect is hardly a time to check your speed and maybe even slow down! :crazy: Until you've walked a second in their shoes don't Monday Morning Quarterback the guy and say he was going too fast...SHEESH! Maybe if he'd owned a Mini and went to a few HPDE's then maybe he's considered as having "adjusted driving skills"?? I'm not gonna get into this anymore but just for a second try to step back and not jump down every LEO's throat for trying to do the right thing. After all, if a cop is in trouble, no one else is going to come help them except another cop....remember that.

Steve

 

Thanks Steve for the support of the officer.
Since I live in Santa Maria I very much appreciate the job our local officers and deputies perform. This officer was responding to backup required to catch a robbery suspect. It was very important for him to get there as quick as possible without endangering other people (not many people on the road at 4:30 AM in Santa Maria). He was willing to endanger himself to protect the public. I am glad he was willing to do that and that he will recover from his injuries.

 

Not to be confused with jumping down anybody's throat, this is simply my long winded take on the situation.

And I'm really not jumping down anybody's throat for doing their job - there's no ranting or raving in my post. Especially not about a LEO, since being one in this day & age is not an easy task with all the mayhem encountered out on the streets of any town.

You present an interesting position, but I would remain steadfast in disagreeing with "A call for assistance with a foot pursuit of a burglary suspect is hardly a time to check your speed and maybe even slow down!". That is how people die or get seriously injured in the line of duty.

That said, and while I haven't necessarily walked in the shoes of a LEO, I have served as a fire fighter and first responder. So I do have a very real and applicable knowledge of critical situations requiring emergency response to save lives or property. Quite the opposite of a Monday Morning Quarterback kind of knowledge as implied.

However, I know that if we ever bounced an ambulance or firetruck off a tree or pole like that responding to anything, the repercussions would be harsh. Subsequent reinstatement, typically under probation (assuming one retained a position in the department), would include retraining on vehicle control, incident response, and public safety.

We were trained, like any public safety officer typically is, to balance our response with safety. It is a delicate balance at times. But having carried officers and fire fighters hurt in careless maneuvers to the ER, I can say it is easy to forget/neglect to place the safety of one's self and the public at large as a priority. This applies to responding to a fire (don't just start throwing water on the flame) or immediately pulling a sidearm in a threatening situation (force isn't always the answer). Operating an emergency vehicle is no different, it is not a "seat of pants" operation. One must think tactically when plotting strategies to address the situation. It is a core component of the position/duty.

It is admittedly a bit of an assumption on my behalf to say he was going too fast, but that is my opinion based solely on the remnants of the vehicle - it takes a lot of velocity to make a Crown Vic come out that narrow. Maybe shaving a moment of speed on that section of road could resulted in a safe arrival and aid to the situation at hand instead of a vehicle extrication and run to the ER with the officer. And who knows about the risk others may have been in when this accident took place. It is really hard to explain to a anybody about why their friend/family member/spouse/etc was just compromised in a wreck like this one.

This is what I remember from my training and experiences serving on the squad.

I do hope the officer makes a full recovery. Similarly, I hope he is subject to scrutiny for what happened behind the wheel before returning to active duty.

 

Your response is too long for me to address everything I want but I'll try my best. First of all I quoted your post because I didn't think it was appropriate to say his priorities needed to be adjusted. Obviously he was going too fast, its quite obvious by the picture. And yes he will probably get retraid. I was a firefighter being getting on the job and you and I both know that fireman drive like maniacs to fire and rescue calls. That's where we (cops and firefighters) differ. While you are responding to a strangers house reportedly on fire yes caution and your safety are paramount. After all how many times is the house really burning down and someone is trapped inside? The difference to that scenario and this one is that's one of us screaming in the radio for help while youre just responding to a reported call for help. If he was driving like that to a 911 call Id probably be shaking my head as well. But he wasnt he was trying to help out one of his own who obviously needed help pursuing a subject who had just committed a violent crime. Big difference from smoke coming from a window or an elderly male with chest pains.

Now I do agree with you that he would have been more of a help if he'd been more careful so that he could actually get there and help the officer. But Again it all comes back to hearing your friend screaming in the radio for help. I don't think a fireman would have responded any different had a fellow fireman been caught in a building collapse or gotten disoriented in a building and was low on air and called for help. That's the only point I was trying to make and I'm sorry if you felt singled out. There were actually a few other posts that were pretty nauseating to see as a response to this.

I'm just trying to say that I understand why he was going as fast as he was. No one else was gonna go rush to help that cop out except another cop. You guys have to understand that this is different from responding to a 911 call. It's hard to understand for the general public but try to imagine yourself on that situation.

Well this has turned into yet another long winded post but I guess I needed to be more clearer than I was in my last post. Hopefully you all now see the differences I was trying show before. If not I guess continue with the sarcastic remarks about tickets and what not.

Steve

 

That officer is very lucky to have survived that wreck.

Look at the car.

The speed he was traveling to do that kind of damage was insanely high, especially on a public road. We aren't talking 45 or 50 mph. From the looks of the wreckage, he had to be going darned near 100 mph. Maybe more. Not sure if police cars have roll cages or additional side reinforcements for rollovers and collisions, but it only makes his speed higher if they do.

While most police cars have improved engines and handling, they are still very big and very heavy.

Part of being a cop or a firefighter is knowing, both through training and through using your brain, how to handle yourself. He knew better.

He let the red mist in and it bit him. Hard. Luckily he will live to tell about it.

I totally understand helping a buddy in trouble, but you are only adding to the problem if you are being crazy/stupid in your efforts to help. Too many cops think they are supermen and can do anything they want to anyone they want.

Every cop I know complains that the brakes on the cruisers go away after the first hard brake. What if this guy screamed up behind his comrade in trouble at the speeds he was traveling and had no brakes?

Him crashing that cruiser is no different than wading into a gunfight with no vest on or drinking and driving. It was a very stupid thing to do that totally negates the help he was attempting to offer.

One of the things we were trained to do when I used to work corners at race tracks is to remain calm because if you don't, you might get hurt or worse.

Cops, firefighters and soldiers are taught that over and over, but there are always a few that just don't get it.

While I am glad he is going to be OK, I also think he needs to be assigned to a desk for the remainder of his career, because frankly, he showed extremely poor judgment and let his ego get him into a potentially deadly situation.

Thankfully, it only affected him, his cruiser, and an innocent tree and not some mom or dad out for a jog or heading to work early.

 

The basics in our training were simple: you're no good to anybody if you're dead - use your head and address the situation accordingly.

And in our training there was no perception or inference of difference between a person bleeding out from a gunshot/broken in a car wreck/burning in fire (false or real) or a call from a fellow officer or fire fighter/medic reporting man down, they all carried the same level of importance.

Sounds like all we can do is agree to disagree.

 

You say the exact same thing I said in the first paragraph, then contradict yourself in the second...

My response to your second paragraph:

So, if I am to believe what you are saying is true: The only training you had was to respond at stupid speeds in a populated area with no regard to your safety or the safety of others? Really? :confused5:

Where is this, just so I know NOT to live there.

That sounds amazingly like NOT using your head to me and I'll bet your superiors would cringe at that answer as well (can you say BIG SETTLEMENT from the city coffers???). Unless of course you work for LAPD, who never EVER seem to learn from their mistakes... :mad2:

Get there SAFELY and ALIVE. That is the only way you are any good to the person in need.

Should he have been in a hurry? Of course. Was he hurrying in a manner that got him there SAFELY? Obviously not. Did he help the person in need? Not even a little. As a matter of fact, he has now diverted critical resources and attention away from the original person in need by becoming a higher priority emergency.

Grade in class: FAIL!

 

Look I'm not saying stop and grab a coffee or a sandwich on your way to a 911 call but when one of your own is screaming for help there IS, there HAS to be a heightened sense of urgency.

I agree completely with that statement. His Intentions were most certainly in the right direction unfortunately he only made things worse by getting into that wreck. You can only be any help if you get there in one piece. Some people really get overwhelmed with adrenaline and that most certainly can cause a lack of judgement. I've seen it many times before but never with this outcome...thank god. I can only hope we won't see this again but I'm afraid we probably will.

 

Turn on any of those "Most Terrifying Crashes" shows and you will see dozens, unfortunately. Not picking on the guy. Glad he is OK. But his judgment is obviously not what it needs to be to be an asset to the people he is backing up.

My ex-father-in-law (EFIL) was driving home from Northern MI to Detroit a few years ago with a buddy of his in his mini van.

Heading the other direction, a Cady full of older ladies was rear-ended by a drunk and sent into the path of my EFIL. He and his buddy weren't wearing seat belts (both they and I know -- stupid). He was spared the windshield by the airbag, but his buddy got the glass collar and a few months of pain and permanent scarring. One woman in the Cady was killed. My EFIL said it was instantaneous. There was no time to react or swerve. All they were doing driving down a straight road and suddenly a Cady was in his grill.

The cop follows their ambulance to the hospital and while my EFIL was laying there strapped to the gurney waiting to be admitted, writes him a ticket for no seat belts and lays it on his chest.

That was about as big an a-hole moment I have ever heard of from a cop, and I have heard and witnessed plenty.

I think that cop who wrecked that car should have had the same treatment.

He was not being a cop at that point. He was being an out of control speed demon in an over powered, under handling car and it cost the people who employ him a lot of money. I am sure he will get disability and all the trimmings for his act of stupidity and poor judgment.

That is not acceptable from a so-called professional, but unfortunately, it is becoming the norm in this country. Do something stupid, get rewarded for it.

ut:

 

I don't follow your lead here if you are referring to my 2nd post... :confused5:

You and I are on the same page.

Not sure if I just mis-typed my thoughts or what, but no - I did not say anything close to my training instilled "respond at stupid speeds in a populated area with no regard to your safety or the safety of others?".

I did say that one of the core things drilled in over and over and over is that "you're no good to anybody if you are dead". And that was at the root of how we operated - use your head and address the situation accordingly. Respond appropriately and safely inside of the given conditions, the vehicle in use, and your capability (which was routinely tested and affirmed or denied to set your permissions/duties). That does not condone speeding and reckless behavior, quite the opposite actually...

That's what JohnGo and I were sayin'...

 

I was talking about this... Thought you meant you drove like a maniac to all of them. Rereading, I think you meant you drive with the same care. Sorry, brother!

:cornut:

 

That's what I thought I meant to say...

 

I will try harder to take you for what you mean and not what I think...