2nd Gen R56 Cooper S The 'Carbon' Problem...

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Redbeard, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. 05r50

    05r50 Well-Known Member

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    I like walnuts and all but I don't know that I could eat enough walnuts to gather up the needed amount of shells. :crazy:
     
  2. JMC40

    JMC40 Well-Known Member

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    I see a group walnut eating day in our future... :D
     
  3. B.A.D.

    B.A.D. Club Coordinator

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    #83 B.A.D., Mar 24, 2012
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    I think MM is going to hire these guys

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    So that's how they make the walnut chips..... I was wondering how they did it....:D
     
  5. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    Would pecan shells work? We could hit Amish country. You keep the shells & I eat the pecan pie..... :drool
     
  6. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    ^^^ whatever you do don't let them switch the pecan shells for horseshoe nails.....:eek:
     
  7. mini52

    mini52 New Member

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    I just had the local dealer do the walnut shell thing to mine, cost about $600 for the work. I have an 2007 MCS with 60K miles and for the last 10K miles or so I noticed a lot of hesitation during acceleration and rougher idling. My car now drives like it did the first year I had it, big improvement. My only other issue is the amount of oil I go through and the dealership checked my compression during the same visit as above and they determined the oil use is not due to worn rings. They also checked for leaks, but again nothing. Frustrating but now that I know the engine is in good shape, I'm not too worried.
     
  8. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Did the tech or SA tell you what "level" of build-up the intake valves were at?
     
  9. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    It's looking like 60K is the magical mile post.....:mad:
     
  10. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    It's not. I chose to do mine at 60k (59k really but whatever). It wasn't bad. I could have gone another 20-30k before being in the same condition that mini52 was in. There were/are cars that have 30k miles and have level 8 & 9 (not a running engine) build-up valves. It is more dependant on driving habits than anything else.
     
  11. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    Update????
     
  12. CHKMINI

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    As you guys know I put a lot of road miles on my MINI's....40K a year. At 80K Silverback was running as good as the day I took delivery. I don't think carbon build up is an issue in my environment. Go out and give it an Italian tune up every week!
     
  13. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Yep, got the pickup tube a week or so ago... Real nice German aluminum casting with multiple step vacuum attachment fitting. The small hole is for the high pressure wand that shoots the crushed walnut shells at the carbon buildup.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I haven't had time to build the rest of the system. Need to make a pressure pot and Harbor Freight sells the walnut chips in two different grits.
     
  14. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    I have a hopper type sand blaster, I imagine that would work just as well as a pressure pot type.

    Dave
     
  15. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    The degridation is slow and subtle. I had no outward signs before taking mine in. I have noticed and improved gas milage and faster turbine spool since my cleaning.

    Do you have pics of the intake valves to share?
     
  16. fngolfer

    fngolfer Active Member

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    BSH oil catch can, pcv plug and seafoam should take care of it.
     
  17. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Seafoam helps but does not stop or remove existing hard build-up.

    Oil catch-cans do help as well.

    I'm still not convinced that blocking off PCV is really a good idea. Last I looked that leads to other problems like ruining seals and piston rings. Pluse it helps that bit of water vapor to leave the crankcase.
     
  18. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    I know Seafoam has a lot of supporters, heck I even bought a container, haven't used it yet though. Is there any proof it does anything except make a lot of white smoke? Before and after pictures (probably hard to come by) of the valves and intake passage. Something more than the "Butt Dyno"? I know people say it idles better after a treatment? Just wondering....
     
  19. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    From the few before and after pictures I have seen (mostly sewing site) it looks like it does a decent job removing the "wet" contaminents. Regular use would help prevent further build-up but I haven't seen anything that shows it stops or reverses the build-up. I believe that it would idle better as that was the only noticeable difference (that didn't require measure with diagnostic tools) I had after the walnut blasting on mine.

    The problem is that the carbon build-up on the valves that has caked-on is almost completely chemically un-reactive and it's small particulate nature means that it "grabs on" hard to surfaces.

    In a past life I worked for a firearms manufacturer and repair company. I was at the bottom of the chain so I spent 90% of my time cleaning repair jobs. AR-15/M-16s almost always had a similar carbon build-up on the face of the gas-piston just before the rings. The only way we could get it completely off, without using the sand blaster (which is like using an A-Bomb to kill a fly), was to use dental scraping tools and some serious elbow grease.
     
  20. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    So it seems it's a progressive thing (obviously). The wet becomes completely chemically un-reactive with the operating temperature at the point where the valves are located. The oil laden fumes are constantly bathing the valves with the "wet" solution (PCV system). The Seafoam doesn't touch the completely chemically un-reactive carbon buildup (or very little). So the Seafoam only addresses the wet and only at the time of application. As soon as the engine is started after a Seafoam treatment, the process starts immediately again and continues until the next treatment, but only for the wet contition. If the Seafoam isn't constantly being applied, the carbon buildup wins. The addition of the oil catch can have the ability to stop the carbon buildup if it's 100% effective (which they aren't). So the best we can hope for is a slowing down of the carbon problem with a OCC.

    Or the physical removal of the un-reactive carbon buildup with the current BMW/MINI "walnut" method (expensive). And this method is also just temporary but addresses the chunky carbon buildup completely at the time of treatment.

    OR become a traveling salesman that does a lot of interstate highway traveling versus the short run stop and go pattern that speeds up the buildup.

    For the Seafoam to really work it would need to be constantly applied to remove the "wet" before it becomes chemically un-reactive..... I'm not convinced the Seafoam really offers much. The only argument there is would be if you didn't do a treatment the wet it would remove would eventually become the hard carbon.

    Seems like the best thing to do would be to install the most effective OCC there is ???? and do the walnut method when required.

    Your mileage may vary.
     

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