Daily Toggle Most liked posts in thread: The Debut of the New MINI John Cooper Works Hardtop

The key to having a real winner....

Hit three things....

Looks, performance, price....

Here's the F56 JCW..... Sounds like the performance is not going to be much better than the F56S..... Expecting price to be higher than it should.... And looks..... Well, not so much... MINI er BMW.... What were you thinking...

You can have a nasty look.... But if performance and price are spot on you can still have a winner... Sort of...

You have the wrong team working on product development.... Competition is much better...

Yeah, even with pedestrian safety....

 

All things are possible....

 

You're right on that, the R53 JCW was overpriced in retrospect for what it was. If I had it to do over again, I'd have bought the GP1. I bought a JCW and the only thing left from that is the CAI.

The F56 is still going to have appeal as a sporty hot hatch, it'll actually appeal to more as it's more comfortable to drive, and the things we're complaining about, although they bother the hell out of us, are not issues for most. And that's cool, I get that, but many of us got on board because the car was point and shoot at the expense of an at times filling rattling ride. We're a minority, but a very vocal one...

I wouldn't mind so much that MINI makes a car with more mass appeal if they'd throw out a limited number of cars that are strictly piss and vinegar for the few of us that want those. There's room for both cars, and both crowds in the MINI community. Except for maybe Dave.

 

And all I see is the design influence of a lotus seed head...

 

OH.... OH....

Question for the MINI JCW product designers.....

"HOW FAST CAN YOU IMPLEMENT CHANGE"....

IT'S HAPPENING: Ford CEO Confirms The Focus RS Is Coming To America

 

There..... Fixed it for you...

 

The RS is not a big heavy brute car, which is exactly why they'll put the Mustang engine in it and not detune it; this car is not considered as a car people will cross shop with the big heavy brute Mustang, so the engine will be maximized for performance, unlike what Porsche did to the Cayman to keep it slowerer than the Carrera. It will be every bit tossable and more than the MINI, the weight/HP ratio will be better in the RS, and if it's anywhere close to the skid pad numbers of the last RS, it'll handle better, both in cornering, accelerating and braking; I suspect it will be much better than the previous RS in all those regards.

The performance goals on this car are high. It'll be in quite another league than the MINI if they pull it off.

To be honest, I'm not sure how "tossable" the MINI even is anymore, with all the electro nannies.

 

Anything wearing a JCW badge past the first FJCW R56's are a waste to me, even the R53 JCW's where debatable at best.

Bringing up the R60 again here, but a JCW R60 is right around $40-$45K+, and what exactly justifies that cost? 30HP, a sub $2K body kit, a couple options and a sticker for $10,000+.

Its sad, I thought BMW made "The ultimate DRIVING machine" not the ultimate riding appliance.

 

Everything I've read about the previous RS mentions it's handling--this is a nimble car, and this one should be more so. The skid pad and slalom won't lie, and I'll bet they'll beat the JCW's significantly. There is a difference between FEELING nimble, and BEING nimble, just like on the track what feels fast often isn't. A Cayman, much heavier than a MINI, feels more nimble and is definitely more tossable, as is the FR-S/BRZ. Weight isn't everything; weight distribution and engine placement can more than make up for it, as can other factors, such as traction control, wheel base and stance, etc...

If all you want is tossability, a Miata would be your best choice. But people want more than that....

The RS also from the ring clips sounds like a race car. Maybe the GP will be something to consider, but I'll bet that will be a rung below the Golf R and RS too. The MINI is being seriously outclassed, and it's a shame they don't have the balls to do something more track inspired, even moreso than the GP.

 

I mean we can magazine-race each other all day long, but numbers are just that... numbers. You can't drive a magazine.

The Mini brand has never been about being a powerful brute, anyways. And I'm fine with that. My GP2 is quick, but it isn't the fastest thing in a straight line, and I love it for that. It means it doesn't overpower the front wheels as easily mid-corner. It sticks like glue. And it puts a big ol' grin on my face and makes fun sounds.

The Nissan GT-R is a numbers car. Wicked fast, handles incredibly well according to the books, yet not many call it fun to drive. I don't ever want a car like that. To have 'fun' in a GT-R requires you to drive it at illegal speeds, too. Where's the fun in that?

Honestly, if you want something faster than a Mini, several other automakers already make it for you.

 

I don't drive a magazine, I drive a MINI. My MINI is already faster on the track, where it counts to me, than many cars it shouldn't be. It's an absolute blast to drive, that's why I still own it. But it was the perfect platform for that, the newer models and engines, not so much. And I have to drive it well to drive it fast. That has been lost to a degree on the latter versions. Fortunately my car is in good enough condition I can continue on with it. If it wasn't, the newer MINI wouldn't replace because it's performance to fun ratio just isn't there anymore. It's sad but true.

But I think you're way off if you think the RS won't be as much fun, or as tossable, as a MINI. I think it'll be quite the opposite, as the MINI becomes more sterilized, it's easier to drive. Anyone can drive a GTR fast, that's similar to how MINI is heading, let the electric nannies do the work for you. The RS is aiming to reward the driver for driving it hard, the MINI is getting to the point where it penalizes you.

Seriously, if you can't have fun in an RS you need to have your pulse checked, if it's anything like the previous model, which will always be considered a drivers car more than I daresay the MINI.

 

Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow...

I found a good bit of truth to this old saying when I bought a new EVO 8 back in 2005. Yes there where times I enjoyed the power and just flat out raw performance of that car, but day to day, it just wasn't fun.

With the R53 you still get the high performance feel in the car, and its easy to drive daily without going overboard.

Now I have an R60 (soon all MINI's will be this size) and it is still fun to toss around, but its dulled out a lot from the R53. You can feel the weight, and the size a lot more than you think, but it can still be considered "quick" although it is not the same animal all of us 1st gen owners fell in love with.

For me its a good daily driver: its quiet, feels solid, surprisingly roomy, and comfortable, yet if I want it can still be driven... Just not as hard.

Unfortunately BMW is trying to make their new cars appeal to every type of person, not just the ones who want a sporty car at a good price. In doing so, they not only ruined the driving and performance aspects of the car, but all the "comforts" and hipster "Tech" comes at a price... The Porker had a sticker price of $31K, and it has the least amount of options you can get without placing a custom order! (Sunroof, cold weather pack, and comfort access package) That is enough to make a lot of people who where thinking MINI to walk and find something else!

The EVO had a sticker of $35K, and was as fully loaded as they came... Sunroof, upgraded Infinity sound system, leather, HID lights, and the active center diff, plus it still had 276 advertised HP (which was lower than it had at the wheels un touched on the dyno all the way up here at 6000 feet) and was built reliable!

Now for MINI to make a "Performance" car again, with all the BS technology they think everybody wants, it would probably cost as much as a new Corvette!

 

That looks like it's probably gonna have too much body roll on a tight sweeper, so much so it requires a second set of wheels above the normal ones to prevent a rollover. I'm really disappointed in Ferrari.

 

Yawn.

 

The seats match the front of the car. MINIs new design language outside & in I guess. :confused5:

2015 Mini John Cooper Works: This Is It

 

The MINI F56 will sell on its good looks alone. :wink:

As far as costs go the MINI has its price going up. I agree that getting an early RS will require additional payments to greedy dealers. After a while those same dealers will be discounting them. Patience pay$.

 

Well, anything with a 3000+ lb curb weight, is heavy. The RS will be heavier than the ST, which already weighs in at 3200 lbs. Plus, to corral all that power through the front wheels (if they don't make it AWD), it will have the incredibly complex and heavy Revoknuckle setup, which mitigates torque steer, but hurts overall steering feel.

I've driven the Focus ST, previously owned a 2013 GTI, and I recently drove the F56 Mini, too. And I bought a GP over all of them.

The F56 still feels light on it's feet if a little low on power; the ST is aggressive and punchy, but feels heavy and eats front tires at an alarming rate; and the GTI is a fun 8/10s car that isn't quite as focused as the Focus.

I'd just love to see automakers focus more on shedding weight than simply boosting power. I love quick cars as much as the next guy, but I also love cars that are willing to dance, too.

 

I have a feeling MINI isn't really concerned about the RS performance competition....

Sure.... They will offer the Cooper and S and JCW each with minimal bumps in HP..... MINI wants to sell a ton of packages with a million different options.... They want to sell "being connected".... They see sales potential to the young "hip" crowd with their iphones....

Sure.... They will sell you and S or a JCW.... Crank the CPU out of the factory for a little here and a little there increase in HP (but never too close to the BMW).... The special "stickers" will be the sign you have the "hot" model... And they will come out with a bunch of "specials".... And at the end of the model year they will put lipstick on a GP....

They are getting bigger and heavier with more entertainment gadgets being added.... Backup cameras... Self park next?

When they dropped the aluminum trailing arm on the F56 in favor of a heavy steel arm, I knew it was the harbinger of things to come... They want to sell color, texture and happiness.... The money is in the "youness"..... Not a high performance MINI..... They are kind of stuck with the JCW heritage... So that will always be an option.... I'll bet we hear less and less of the "Bulldog" stance or "Go-kart handling".... The crew that was responsible for the front bumper on the S or JCW wasn't designing for performance.... They just wanted something that kind of maybe looked the performance part... "Hey... On the "S".... "Lets go with a turbo spool depression and fit it around the fog lights".... "Yeah" and on the JCW.... "Because it's the HOT one".... Lets go with a fricking bunch of air scoops.....

MINI is simply going where the money is....

 

I agree with that 100%, and that's why I'm not looking to buy another MINI. I've said it (and been beaten up for it) over and over, the new generation by and large caters to a different crowd. The days of trying to squeeze more rawness out of the powertrain by self modders have been replaced by trying to squeeze more refinement out of the car by BMW. Not my thing.

I still don't see why BMW can't do an RS type thing, or Boss Laguna Seca type thing, or Porsche Cayman R type thing, etc, etc. Just a no frills pure track beast. They teased us with the GP1, and I thought it was coming, but they've bailed on it. They could have done both, and considering the MINI was a labor of love to begin with, I'm surprised they haven't. I'm ok with a partial sellout, but this has been a total sellout.

 

I have no problem driving at illegal speeds!