Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S Most liked posts in thread: The mysterious power lag

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  1. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #22 BlimeyCabrio, Nov 13, 2009
    Tim - I don't think larger injectors are the solution... you're spraying WAY less fuel at WOT at 3000 RPM than you are at 6000RPM... and yet our cars run fine at higher RPMs... Also why i doubt it's a fuel pump or fuel filter issue - but I'm going to replace my fuel filter next week, just in case. I'll test my fuel pressure when i get a chance.

    I'm still thinking it's a fuel map issue with my tune - I'm going to try a retune soon.
     
  2. Father Deth

    Father Deth New Member

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    #23 Father Deth, Nov 13, 2009
    I see what you mean. I might just have to follow suit and get a tune, finally. I have RMW's remote tuner, but have yet to get a tune. I'm also fearing I'm having clutch issues now as well. I can't win with this car.
     
  3. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #24 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 13, 2010
    OK, I'm resurrecting this thread. Same crap is happening again off and on. It pretty much stopped for several months, now has come back. While I DID just go from 15% to 17% this weekend, it was doing this intermittantly before I did the pulley swap. I can't correlate anything to this... and it drives me nuts. Behavior is exactly as before - throttle retards to about 50% until it hits about 4000-4200 RPM, then it goes WOT and car takes off like it was shot out of a cannon. Just like the data plot in post #8 shows.

    Any new ideas? Any specific things, sensors, etc. you'd suggest I log to help diagnose? I can log just about anything now with the new version of AutoEnginuity.
     
  4. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    #25 Dr Obnxs, Sep 13, 2010
    My guess

    is that this has to do with the kinks in the fuel maps that are required for the bypass valve transition. Try wiretieing the valve open and see what happens. You'll drop a MPG or two during the test, but it will take the valve out of the equation.

    matt
     
  5. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #26 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 13, 2010
    valve open or valve closed?

    FWIW, I've done that test previously when having this problem, and there was no change with:
    bypass valve wired open,
    bypass valve wired shut,
    BPV vacuum line connected,
    BPV vacuum line disconnected,
    JCW intake connected or disconnected,
    JCW intake vaccum like connected or plugged,
    JCW intake flap blocked open,
    TMAP sensor swapped....
     
  6. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    #27 Dr Obnxs, Sep 13, 2010
    Valve closed...

    but if you did the test already, there will be little to learn. FWIW, the throttle body position is set by the ECU based on driver demand (eGas pedal) and intake pressures. So if you log the MAP, T-MAP, Driver Demand and TB position, you might learn something. BTW, the Driver Deamand and TB position each have two raw signals.

    Matt
     
  7. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH Well-Known Member

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    #28 ZippyNH, Sep 14, 2010
    My thoughts
    ....maybe it is time for a re-tune...when Jan did mine (late spring) he did mention that the "transition" between full throttle, and the o2 regulated enrichment...or something to that effect was not so good on some of the earlier tunes....he said now the r53 tunes are more advanced than ever (he said some tunes had a bit of a flat spot, but it does sound like yours is huge...)....maybe you could use a flash tool, save your tune, and flash it with an OEM tune...and see how it runs...he used terms that were a bit different...but the above was the jest of it.

    Is it safe to assume that you have clean every sensor you can get too? My gut intinct is that a sensor might be sending some info that is not quite right...and a simple voltmeter will not show you...I have always been told you need to put sensors on a scope to see what the response actually is....since they can sometimes be OK on a voltmeter...but that stuff is a bit beyond my expertise...and electrically a bit beyond my comfort range.
     
  8. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #29 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 15, 2010
    Thanks Zippy. Was just halfway retuned by Jan with a new map several weeks back - wasn't doing this before or after the tune, but the symptom has come back now. I still need to fix a couple little exhaust leaks (way downstream, not impacting O2 readings) and then get Jan to do a new remote tune anyway. But this behavior has persisted across a couple of Jan tunes and is intermittant.

    Dr. O - I'll log that combo and see what I can learn.
     
  9. Jan

    Jan Well-Known Member
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    #30 Jan, Sep 15, 2010
    it's either a wiring issue on the throttle body or a throttle body that is causing this, as nothing in the tune will cause it to close the TB
     
  10. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #31 minimark, Sep 15, 2010
    Just had a similar problem on the wife's BMW, the throttle body was hanging up either mechanically or electrically and ultimately it got worse until we replaced the throttle body. All's good now and running fine. It is funny that your problem comes and goes....of course so did the beemer's.... We tried everything to find a resolution before the replacement.... Paul maybe one weekend we could take mine off and put it on yours for a test.
     
  11. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #32 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
    Thanks Jan

    I'm definitely not blaming the tune. I've considered TB as a possibility and have definitely thought about swapping the TB.

    The thing that seems weird to me is (a) that the symptom is intermittant over the past year and a half and (b) that, when it's doing it, it's 100% consistent in behavior, and 100% linked to RPM (retards throttle until ~4000RPM, then goes WOT just fine). I don't see how a bad TB or TB wiring would produce that kind of behavior. Seems like it's doing exactly what it's being told to do by the ECU... and no codes.

    But I'm close to swapping the TB just to eliminate that as the cause....
     
  12. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #33 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 15, 2010
    Mark... interesting. Hmmmm....
     
  13. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    #34 Dr Obnxs, Sep 15, 2010
    I've got a TB around here somewhere I think...

    I can go check. The swap is a good idea. But I'd be surprised that a TB wouldn't go where told without a code. That's a pretty critical engine performance and safety issue.

    Matt
     
  14. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    #35 Dr Obnxs, Sep 15, 2010
    Yep, I got one...

    it's an M7 60mm unit, I think, or a stocker, I can't remember which is on my car. Anyway, if you want to use it for testing, you cover postage and I'll send it out. e-mail me at [email protected]

    Matt
     
  15. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    #36 BThayer23, Sep 15, 2010
    Paul, you're in luck. My car's gonna be up on jack stands for another week and a half while I finish up. You want to borrow my throttle body?

    [​IMG]
     
  16. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #37 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 15, 2010
    Yesssssss!

    I have a slightly used one I'll trade with you. Same difference. :devil:
     
  17. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #38 minimark, Sep 15, 2010
    Sounds like a plan, if the problem doesn't go away then the TB can be ruled out.
     
  18. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #39 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 16, 2010
    This is really maddening.

    I replaced the SC pulley, tensioner and belt over the weekend. Car was consistently exhibiting the throttle retard described above when I test drove. Car sat until Tuesday. Drove on Tuesday, car was consistently exhibiting the symptom. 100% of the time. I couldn't make it NOT do it. Car sits until today. I pull the car out of the garage today and NO PROBLEM. Car runs PERFECTLY. I try to produce the symptoms via approximately 100 WOT cycles... it never does it. Absolutely nothing has changed since Tuesday. Same fuel, same weather, never even popped the bonnet.

    So I have Ben's TB now... but no reason to test it until the symptom recurs.
     
  19. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    #40 Dr Obnxs, Sep 16, 2010
    Intermittant problems

    are the HARDEST to nail down. At least you have the part to test it with.

    Matt
     
  20. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #41 minimark, Sep 16, 2010
    Paul that is exactly the way the BMW did, it would go away and no problem for awhile and then you couldn't keep it from doing it, park it and go back.and no problem. Eventually it started putting the car in limp mode as it progressed until..... My advice would be to install Ben's TB now while his is on the jacks. That way you can drive it a few days, not just around the block and see if the problem recurs.

    Drove everyone nuts finding the solution because it came.and went, even thought it was the tranny at one point... 2 cents.
     
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