Most liked posts in thread: The System Worked!

My experience with El Al security...

was from a long time ago. My family was taken to a room where our luggage was already there and openened. We were interviewed for about 20 minutes by a rather unsmiling gentelman who asked the same questions about 20 different ways to look for inconsistancies. This was for a family of four going to Isreal for my dad to give an invited lecture at the Weiztman Instatute in Rehovot.

So, for a plane of 250 people, that's about 20 hours of screening. And that assumes that everyone gets the same scrutiny as a white family of four with two kids (I was 13 at the time). This would grind air travel to a stop. Isreal can do this because of the low volume of flights to and from Israel.

I think the first mistake was trying to imply that it's possible to make America safe. It's not, and it sets an impossible bar for any group, no matter how skilled, to get over. I'm listening to the BBC reporting on this now, and it's all about US safety networks being in disarray, and on and on. But anyone who knows anything about the subject is just rolling thier eyes at all the window dressing that goes on to keep the masses calm. We don't create safety with all this BS, we create an appearance of safety for those that are clueless with all this BS.

Really, all one can do is create a certain level of inconvinience for the passengers that makes it harder than just walking on board a plane for those that harbor ill will. You can't make it absolutely safe, you just can make it safe enough....

And we don't really help at this at all. I was talking to a former FBI agent (now in Homeland Security) about all the lists of people to worry about that we're busy making. People are put on with little thought... You don't want to be the guy or gal who didn't add the name that blows up the next building. And no one will take any names off, because you don't want to be the person who removed the guy or gal that blows up the next building. So the lists get longer and longer, and more and more unmanagable, ultimately diluting thier usefullness to the point of absurdity. There are lots of examples like this.

Matt

 

Sadly when you have people willing to stick explosives in their underwear and blow themselves up, 100% saftey is unobtainable. But, most terrorist acts on planes have been carried out by Muslims and you can call it profiling all you want but when a Muslim gets on a plane they should have to go through VERY tough screening. Maybe the inconvience will help convince the good Muslims to take on a larger roll in stopping the madness. From there we have to be on the offensive and go after the terrorist with EVERYTHING at our disposal and stop them in their tracks long before they have any chance to board an airplane.

 

Who is Jack Bauer? I thought it was Jack Ryan.

 

Terrorists, suicide bombers, extremists, the people desperate to cause harm to others at all costs.

 

you missed the joke

 

You don't need a bomb...

just mix 4 oz of bleach with 4 oz of ammonia. Makes HCL gas. While it wouldn't take a plane down, it would really screw with all the lungs on the plane. Would create all the buzz and havoc that was desired as well.

Matt

 

right. and those proles go to their deaths, why?

If you honestly think the actions of George W. Bush during his two terms have actually decreased the propensity for a terrorist 'state of mind' overseas, you're either delusional or watching too much Fox News. rrr:

The heart of the matter is economic disparity and social injustice in much of the middle east (Saudi is a hotbed, as is Yemen). The extremists feed on this - gathering up the underprivileged, brainwashing them, then convincing them the way out, the way to fight this is jihad against the west. In return, we shoot them, drop a bomb on their hideout, or launch a missile from a drone, thereby reaffirming the doctrine.

The way out of this mess? Opportunity. Education. We can help, but this needs to come from within as much as from us. That means the Saudi's need reform. Syria as well. Why are the Palestinians in such a bad spot? Oppression from Israel? Perhaps. An utter lack of responsibility for their well-being from their own (freely elected) leaders? Absolutely.

I believe we're starting to see the tides turn...a few times in recent news, Muslims have stood up against the extremist activity and turned in their own flesh and blood, to make a stand against this polarizing element of their culture/religion. More has to happen however.

 

Also makes any and all cigarettes taste like menthols. I used a similar concoction to clean the floors in the barracks before inspections. The fumes were bad enough that no one could remain inside long enough to inspect anything. But the floors were clean. ut:

 

The sentiments that drive these folks to blow themselves up and take the innocent with them, started long before George W Bush was president and still persist. Honestly, isn't it about time to actually work together to find answers instead of blaming everything on Bush... These attacks were happening and the people behind them were doing these very same things the whole time Clinton was in office too...

The simple and plain truth about these radicals is that they in no way want to coexist with anyone that doesn't follow their beliefs. In the movie July 4th, when the Persident ask the alien what they wanted from us, the aliens answer was to the point.. " To die." Pretty much the same thing here.

Now how do we go about changing that?

 

But was there not a point in Christianity when heretics and un-faithful were also getting slaughtered? If I recall correctly that happened on about the same time line for that religion as it is now happening for Islam.

 

whoa, whoa, whoa. Where did I say 'Bush created terrorists'??? :lol: What I said was, his actions over his two terms did as much to create new ones as take current ones off the street.

The roots of terrorism go way back and we're partially to blame. We've meddled in many a country's affairs, turned a blind eye to others and that's the rallying cry of extremists.

 

This game theory guy..

who's getting a lot of play in the media now cause of a new book, points out that a lot of the countries, like Yemen, have no interest in really getting rid of anti-western extremists. Since we dump aid to keep the fight going, if they actually got rid of them all, the aid would stop! And they are correct in seeing that the US gives money when there's a short term interest served, but tends to not give money to keep a long term problem that isn't urgent at bay. One of the ways we fight our own interests...

Matt

 

I agree with what PGT said here, except I think it's perceived disparity and injustice rather than anything actual. Osama Bin Ladin, thanks to his family, was economically well off and never really the victim of any injustices, he just perceived that he was and fed off of that perception. There's really no way to eliminate a problem that exists in some people's minds and people like this will use whatever means they can to spread this perception to others in a recruitment method. We can eliminate some of the real issues, which issues and how is up for discussion, but this alone won't completely do away with terrorism.

 

On politics, DITTO!:lol:

 

Also interesting to note how important it becomes when it is terrorist caused, rather then due to poor maintenance, and personnel policies. Shoddy maintenance, over-worked pilots or air traffic controllers can kill as many as an underwear bomber, but they rate a much less intense response. Anyone know how many near misses there are per week, compared to failed terrorist attacks? Will we spend the money for transponders in planes? Last I heard, not. Billions for scanners in airports. Indications seem favorable.

 

do you think OSB is fighting for himself, his own benefit? Besides, he's a figurehead in the organization and his family has ostracized him long ago. The real bogey is AAZ, the Egyption doctor who was tortured in prison and a member of Islamic Jihad (who joined with AQ).

OSB began his career as a terrorist at about the point we left the Mujahadeen and more importantly, the Afghan tribal leaders to themselves after the Soviet withdrawal in 1989. Instead of investing in rebuilding the country, we cut off funds and let the war-torn country devolve deeper into chaos. In Europe, we had the Marshall Plan. In Japan, Gen. McArthur ran the place and helped sow the seeds of recovery. Our involvement in Soviet ordeal was never public nor a declared war and the the region had little for us to exploit, therefore, we didn't feel the need to stay on. That gave rise to the Taliban and we know the rest.

 

here is the thing...we go to war and purposely handcuff ourself while the enemy plays every dirty tactic in the book to great effect....it started in vietnam...we were so concerned with public opinion....look our spec ops trained these taliban and al qaeda members back when the soviets were our enemy...pull the conventional troops out and send the operators in with one rule....there are no rules...they can use whatever tactics necessary and this would have ended the wars long ago...lets have them running for dear life...inglorious basterds is kind of a odd example but the theory is sound...return their cruelty back on them and watch them collapse...itll be hard to explain to the followers when an ied that brother mohammed built ended up on his doorstep and leveled him and his home...the people the taliban recruit arent military...they are farmers and generally poor uneducated masses to be their soldiers while the leaders hide...

oh and screw the moral high ground...we arent fighting nazi's we are fighting a enemy that cares little for women/children/young/sick/old/white/black/asian/etc...first off the media needs to get lost when it comes to the wars...they have done nothing but complicate matters...like cnn posting and airing every extremist or terrorist video...all you are doing is giving these groups a voice and promoting their ideals...like when anderson cooper ran a propaganda video of how al qaeda snipers were killing our troops...oh cnn said well we didnt show them hitting the ground...no but you did just show someones dad or husband or son getting popped by haji and dying on national television...just like the anti war wackjobs who say we support the troops but we dont support what they are doing....if you support us you support what we do...you cant pick and choose what

and as for the homeland secretary...everyone is condemning the intel agencies for not jumping on this one piece of intel...alot of times they are going through piles and piles of rough information trying to vett it to find the credible threats...we cant jump at every shadow because we might turn our back to the one shadow that is out to get us...though this is the same homeland secretary that called members of the military brown shirt terrorists....how we would become the next timothy mcveigh

there are some groups who you dont want to alienate...the military is one such group...and calling us terrorists isnt the best way to gain our favor to vote in your favor