3rd Gen F54 Clubman Most liked posts in thread: Thoughts on the new F54 Clubman

Look, dude... we get it. It's not a small MINI. So what? Christ, you people love to beat the dead 'big MINI' horse into a bloody, unrecognizable pulpy mess.

It's a bigger MINI. Deal with it. There's still the hardtop. Yes, that's grown too... but very minimally. The Clubman isn't for hardtop buyers. Its purpose is to be the more spacious, more versatile, more capable MINI. It's a car for people with families, for people with big dogs, for people who just can't fit in a regular MINI but love the brand.

It's a FANTASTIC option for people who require a car that can fit rearward-facing baby seats but don't want a crossover or momvan.

This car will help make a case for keeping the purest MINI, the hardtop, in the lineup, much like the Cayenne and Macan support the 911 and Cayman/Boxster.

:mad2:

I sell these things, and do you understand how frustrating it has been to not have a car in the lineup for current MINI owners with expanding families? I don't want to tell people, "Sorry, go buy a CR-V."

 

I did that to reduce overhead and stop making payments for a car that sits in my garage 75% of the time - I'm at a point in my life where I'm trying to save for a house now instead of putting all my income into the car I drive.

The R53 was the right car at the right time - I would've gladly stuck with the GP, and I even considered custom-ordering a new JCW since I've never custom ordered a car before. But, sensibility won that argument.

In regards to the brand, I don't disagree - we're actually having this exact discussion right now here at the dealership. BMW is chasing the wrong targets. The brand should be kept niche-y, and not chase volume, or luxury, and the vehicles don't need to be any bigger. Now, prepare yourself for a bit of a ramble...

Having a few different models to satisfy the needs of customers who love the brand is one thing, but changing the brand and lineup to satisfy the needs of customers you never had, or appease the customers who just complain about the cars being different... meh.

That all being said, the Clubman does have a purpose, and I think it's a better solution than the current Countryman - and it will have AWD available by the middle of 2016. The Clubman is a perfectly acceptable 'not normal' answer to people who need a family hauler but don't want the typical family hauler.

I've owned and driven a lot of cars in the last few years, and the MINIs are still by far some of the most fun cars you can currently buy. The brand isn't gone yet. A little lost maybe, but hopefully BMW doesn't totally screw it up. I still get a lot of people who wander into the dealership, test drive a MINI for the first time, and go, "Wow, I never thought I'd like this car!"

Customers like that make my day. That being said...

I think we're on the cusp of a total revolution in the car-buying world anyway, though. Ride-sharing services are on the rise, autonomous cars are not far away, and traffic and road conditions just suck. Hopefully, Tesla succeeds in revolutionizing the car-buying process with their factory owned store structure, because the current race-to-the-bottom selling process blows. Chopping the price of new cars only hurts the pre-owned market, and it makes people fear the process of buying a car.

Also, in time, my job will disappear, too - Since people don't want to deal with the average salesperson (and I don't blame them), you have companies like Carvana popping up, which take the human middle-man out of the buying process. You simply show up, pop your money in, and you're essentially given a car out of a vending machine.

Plus you have the impending nanny state looking to impose taxed-by-the-mile driving taxes, the taxation-without-representation of revenue-generating speeding tickets (speeding in itself is not inherently unsafe, but it does make a TON of money for the government).

Our days as car enthusiasts are numbered.

Luckily, I'll still be able to ride my bike fast. Hopefully.

 

I might have to stop by the dealer and check out the new Clubbie. I recently made the upgrade from a r53 to a r56 (spice orange JCW exterior and interior packages, Zillon should know who this is ) and could not be happier. I think MINI might have too many model lines to choose from at the moment, but I don't disagree with them having 4 door models for people who still want to be in a MINI but have needs for a larger vehicle. It's nice being in a multi-MINI household. :biggrin5:

 

Agreed.

The Mk7 GTI is a fantastic car.

If I still worked at a VW store, I might have gotten a Mk7 GTI 2-door with the Performance Pack and Xenons.

 

I notice you just switched from a 13 GP to an 05 S INSTEAD of buying a new and improved BIG mini-you went smaller....

The Modern MINI/company I fell in love with (and built a life around) didn't try to please every slot in every market-it went, unapologizing, into the masses with "not normal" a proud battle cry.
The current ever bigger/heavier/ "not MINI" cars, with the window switches on the door like every chevy built, and the bigger engines to move around more mass are disappointing from the company that redefined small fun cars.
Nice for you to have something to sell the American "we want it super sized" buyers, and I will service them as they become more popular and arrive, but the BMW concept of reviving the mini name has died. Now they are like everything else-they even changed the badge graphic as though they want to distance themselves from 11 years of great, small products.

 

The wife loves her MINI, and luckily... we're not of the kid-having type, so we can continue to own the small ones.

 

Drive a 7th Gen GTI and you will find it far from bloated, while it is larger than the F56 - it handles exceedingly well, has great quality interior and can be had with a true limited slip differential from the factory makes it a great daily driver car for the enthusiastic driver.

 

I love going golfing.

 

I had a 2013 GTI, it was a great car honestly.

I enjoy the MINIs more, though.

 

Seems VW & Audrey had their fair share of complaints about the DSG when they were first rolled out. They even extended the warranty on the early ones. For me it seems to be a very good box-o-cogs. It does not feel like a torque converter autobox. The syrupy smoothness of a torque converter is not there. It is most notable in slow stop & go traffic. It takes a second for the clutch to engage. Not a problem for me, but I'm sure for many that lack of syrup it a major complaint. Once moving the it snaps off shifts at an amazing clip, either row it yourself or in full auto mode. For folks who think of a car as an appliance a quick shifting bang gearbox is not going to make them happy. I think that is the crux of the problem.

VW realizes that these things need to be service. Oil & filter change every 40,000 miles. Don't know why they don't use BMW/MINI's lifetime fluids.

Just my .02 on the only dual clutch box I have ever sampled.

 

The F54 Clubman is the same size as a VW Golf.

Not that big.

Anyways, the first one just arrived off the truck here at work.

 

It might be the perspective.... But that bonnet looks like it goes on forever...

 

I was with Bruce that night at Baron, and I'm not going to debate the should they or shouldn't they part of it, (although I'd have thought that having both the countryman and the 4 dr hatch would have been enough to satisfy the market for 4 dr MINI cars..) but rather the other part of the equation - value.

Prices have slowly crept up till a new MINI is now out of my reach, and on top of that BMW has marketed the Clubman as an upmarket offering....meaning even more expensive. When speaking to the sales mgr at Baron he said that while pre-ordering some new Clubmen he actually had to decontent them as the price had gotten well over $40K.

So my issue is that this car no longer offers the value any more....

On top of that, I agree with Bruce's observation about the size of the car. When I sat in the car it really didn't seem as roomy as a Countryman. Specs may say otherwise, but the car's inside space did not meet outside's promise, unlike early BMWs and Audis, which always felt larger inside than out. The thick doors he mentioned were kind of a tipoff - they were frickin huge! They sounded like bank vaults when they closed tho....

When I stood in front of the car it looked like the body had been stretched to fit over another car's chassis - and I think that's exactly what they did.

I don't disagree with the idea of MINI making more models to reach more customers and continue to grow the brand, but I do feel like they've walked away completely from their original brief, instead of keeping their core and adding to it... and one of their core values was value.

I am a multi Mini/MINI owner as is Bruce.....I started with a 2003 JCW and currently have a 2009 Clubby which I ordered new. I also have a classic in the garage, my second one of those.....so I understand the MINI's mission. I think they've gone from being and doing what their mission was to chasing sales and profit. You need those to survive alright, but I think they've overreached with this car......further I think they're going to drag all their products upmarket too - read even more expensive.

In the showroom that night was a 4 dr hatch with a sticker of $39K!

My interest in this car was to potentially replace my wife's 2004 Audi Allroad, especially as I understand the Clubman will be available in the spring with all wheel drive - a requirement for her as she works nights and I need to know she can get home in inclement weather. But at this price point there's simply no way, although it offers more than MINIs in the past, it's no where close to her current car in terms of luxury, appointments, features or value.

A 2 year old Allroad with 30K can be bought for less than $30K, and it offers more space, far nicer interior appointments, more features, more performance and all in all more for the money. A new Allroad is also beyond my wallet too........BTW.

 

Are you required to MINI since you work at the MINI store?

 

Nah, but it definitely makes sense to.

Can't get VW parts at a MINI store. :lol:

My parts department loves me this week - I've bought a LOT of parts for the R53 project I just bought.

 

Zillon, have you had a chance to drive the new Clubman (either Justa or S flavor)? Curious to know your driving impressions of it compared to the MINIs you own and your GTI.

I think I would be more accepting of the new Clubman if it wasn't for the 4 dr hatchback and Countryman (three different 4 dr cars seem like a lot) or if MINI/BMW didn't stick with their plan that ever car has the same performance numbers (regardless of size or weight). The fact that it is now the same size as a Golf makes it seem like more people will cross shop it with the likes of the Focus (base, ST, RS) or Golf (base, GTI, R), so beyond maybe the base models it feels like the advantage goes to the competitors when you factor in overall performance and value.

 

Looks like our MINIs have done a little growing too..



We all could probably come up with a list of cars that have changed size wise whether good or bad. It would seem,IMO that MINI is trying to get into the family vehicle market, a coupe, hardtop what ever the flavor of the year is this year is just not a family friendly car. My daughter has a 2009 Club, both the kids are still in car sets, as a family car it is at about its limits. I get tired of smacking my head making sure they are strapped in. :mad2: I couldn't imagine doing it everyday.

I totally agree with MINIDAVE's assessment on the value of the modern MINI. Pricing has gotten ridiculous and you don't get a fraction of what you can get from other vehicles new or used.

 

I actually just took the base Clubman for a spin to gas it up - it drives very nice. Even the regular 3-cylinder turbo moves along pretty well.

The Clubman S we just got in haven't been PDI'd yet, but I'm curious to see how the new 8-speed auto is in that one.

I do agree, though, with the redundancy of the 4-door models - with the new Clubman, I don't think the 4-door hardtop is necessary.

Honestly, I think things would've been just fine with the 3-door hardtop, the 4-door hardtop, and a larger Countryman. I guess we'll see what happens... but I know the next Countryman will have to grow a bit, as the new Clubman is currently larger than the current Countryman.