OK... so I've read a little more on this...
1) in case you need to know... I'm running about -1.8deg camber F, -1.2deg R
2) Koni FSD's, Ireland fixed plates, TSW springs, H-Sport 19mm swaybar (medium setting), H-sport lower control arms, TSW endlinks set for no preload with driver in car.
While I know I can do MUCH more experimenting with pressures tomorrow, and maybe need to start with something like 40psi hot as a starting point, I'm probably driving beyond the limit of these tires at my current camber settings and need to slow down vs. drifting like mad out of every corner... I'm probably pushing way too much slip angle for these tires...
Thoughts?
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BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIsLifetime Supporter
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I would like to see some input on this too.
I know how I used to run my 67 Alfa GT on R1s, but the R56 on the track is a little different for me.
Currently on casual lapping I'm leaving my 16" F1s at 36 all the way around, but not aggressive driving, pretty much moderate lapping.
I imagine tire setup between the R53/R56 and Cabrio might be different.
Don -
40 hot is what I've had recommended to me, and it works as a pretty good starting point. I usually start around 32-33 cold, then adjust as the day goes on depending on how the day is going. I usually wind up going a little higher on the rears than the fronts...
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BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIsLifetime Supporter
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I run the cabrio top-up at the track. With the top down, it's significantly more rear-heavy - you can visibly see the difference in ride height with the top up vs. down. It's still a little more rear-heavy than the coupe even with the top up due to the convertible mechanism and under-chassis bracing. But I haven't corner weighed it to see what the weight distribution really is.
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+1 for the 40 psi hot tire pressure. I have run Dunlop Direzza Star specs, Falken Azenis and Hankook RS2's and the 40 psi has generally served me well. The first run of the day I start at 35 all the way around. Depending on how your car rotates you will want to adjust the rears appropriately. Higher for more rotation, lower for more grip.
For reference, I am running TSW KW V2's with a 19MM rear sway on the middle setting. 2.4 neg camber up front, 1.5 neg in the rear and have had the car corner balanced. -
I've also found that grippier tires need a few pounds extra pressure. Stiffens them up a bit to move the wear to the center of the tire vs. the outside edge.
For reference:
street tires (around 200 UTOG) 32 cold - 40 hot
R-comp (100 or less UTOG) 34 cold - 42 hot
205/50/15 track tires
Alan -
I run 205/50ZR16 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2
For the track I like them to be 40 psi HOT. That's about 32 cold.
I run then at 36 for long highway drives. -
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Little tip I've found helpful - I put a little more pressure (pound or two) in the rear to help combat understeer. It might not work for you, or be to your liking, but I like it. On street tires, that means I get the rears up to 41-42 and the fronts around 38-40. This means that the fronts have to start much lower because they get most of the heat, so somewhere around 30ish.
I have +- -3 front and +- - 1.3 rear. It performs balanced slides nicely when I go in too hot and is fun and neutral when I hit it right. When I put a left rear tire on the grass, it spins quicker than Bill O'Reilly hahaha :crazy:
- Marc -
I guess I should have also added that I have a adjustable rear swaybar and camber plates.
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BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIsLifetime Supporter
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THANKS everybody - good stuff....
I found 40 hot to be a good sweet spot for the Neo Gens also today. Definitely had to do some plus and minus adjustments to get there over the first few sessions - then the tires were pretty predictable throughout the day. But, that said, I need WAY better tires for the track... -
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- Marc -
old81 Club CoordinatorLifetime Supporter
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Or you could try the RE-11 or XS, as the next step up before going to R compound or full race tires.
Thanks for the sweet spot of 40, that will help if I do some lapping with my Neogens which are going on the Challenge Wheels.
Where did you start the day for cold temps?
My track setup is 205/50/16 GY F1 GS-D3. (the last of the made in Germany). -
dunno how useful this is as i am in a R50
but with my 205/50/16 F1 GS-D3 (also the last germany batch)
i used tire wear indication to settle on 41f/40r hot
^that got the wear over the entire tread
but i have no camber plates or adjustable rear arms (all i have are h-sport springs)
i think it was ~36f/37r cold <-- again with an r50 my tires will heat up differently with a lighter car and different alignment (hot pressures are the important ones) -
BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIsLifetime Supporter
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Yeah... I gotta pay for some of my *current* mods... :lol:
Then next on the list are light wheels and stickier tires (but not R-comps yet).
And brakes... I roasted my front brakes (Carbotech XP10, stock calipers, Ate slotted rotors) on the last session yesterday - they were FANTASTIC before then. Still have plenty of pad left, I either warped or deposited on my rotors so I have nasty pulsing stops now, and I roasted my Super Blue so pedal is spongy. I converted the orange paint on the XP10s to ASH. Will tear it down tonight and figure out what's what... may just need to sand the deposits off the rotors and be OK...
The BDM kit is looking better and better... and I checked the template on my street wheels and it fits... :cornut: -
Before buying the BDM, I went through a bunch of different pads, XP10's, HP+'s etc... Each time I went to the track I would overhead the pads and they would be crumbling by the end of the weekend. I think the key to the BDM is the 1.25" rotor, if the rotors successfully dissipate heat then the pads can cool and you wont end up boiling your fluid. The nicest thing, other than the fact the brakes stop like crazy, was having the exact same pedal feel when I apply the brakes. No more wondering how much the brakes are going to fade when heading into a corner. -
See Nathan's ShowCase :: R91 Bullet on GNAT
I borrowed a set at MOTD and they fit, barely. -
BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIsLifetime Supporter
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Nathan... that is REALLY GOOD news.... because the setup you tested is exactly what I think I'll end up with... and I own two sets of R91 bullets...
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old81 Club CoordinatorLifetime Supporter
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Paul, UK, lots of good useful information. Thanks for the updates.
Of course you make me worry about my wimpy stock rotors after all the comments about your race pads getting toasted.
I imagine you run in the advanced groups, I'm going to stay in the middle group.
UK, how did you like the performance of your F1 GS-D3 on track. Did you wish you had a set of RE-11 or something a notch up?
Don
07 MCSa, TSW Springs, other bits. -
BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIsLifetime Supporter
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I'm just an intermediate wimp. But I'm in a relatively heavy cabrio... and I brake HARD... and me and my instructor weigh in at about 600 lbs total.... and the VIR south course has one corner that is a 115ish-to-40ish hammer on the brakes... 90 second laps, so doing that every 90 seconds for 20 minutes with two other 80ish-40ish corners in between... it was death to brakes.
Oh well... I had to try the track pads before I could justify the BDM.... now I know what I really need... I have a buddy with a MCS coupe who is a GOOD and FAST driver at VIR who has no problem with the XP10/XP8 combo... lighter car and maybe a little easier on brakes than me, too. So your mileage may vary.
But yeah... my XP10s are crumbling around the edges, and all the orange paint turned to gray ash. And my red caliper paint turned black. I cooked 'em. And my rotors are pulsing a little... hope it's just deposits and not warped rotors... I'll have them turned a tiny bit if they don't clear up in the next couple of weeks with the Bobcats.
The XP8's look almost like new - they got some wear, but didn't overheat. It's weird that my AX6 pads did better at the track than the XP10's... but I was soloing all day so 300 lbs lighter, and they faded a little late in the day but never got cooked.
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