Track Tires on R56 or general race tire recommendations!

Discussion in 'Track Days & HPDE's' started by old81, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. old81

    old81 Club Coordinator
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    I know long title. :)

    Actually I'm pretty much set for my next tire for scooter (R56 MCSa), but I want to know what other people are running on the track for serious grip?

    Not the MAX performance tire like the XS, RE-11, R-01, etc, but what R compound race tire and size can you get on the R56.

    We would like to run 205/215x45x17 on the 09 JCW, wheels would be a strong lightweight, perhaps the OZ to fit over the 09 JCW brakes.

    Wheels will be 17x7.

    Recommendations, any actual experience with R type tires on you MINI?

    What size do you run, wheels, etc?

    Thanks,
    Don
     
  2. roach13

    roach13 New Member

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    Hoosier R6's. That's what I run but I run 225x45x15's.

    Question how many DE's have you done? You'll learn a lot more staying on good street tires R compounds can cover mistakes and give you little warning before they let go. The difference between street tires and r compounds is amazing.

    Hoosier's are about $240 ea last about 30 heat cycles before they go off.

    I've run lot's of different R compound tires and the Hoosier is the best.
     
  3. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to be a noob, but can you explain a heat cycle? Is that one session on the track, or one track day, or one track weekend?
     
  4. roach13

    roach13 New Member

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    One session one heat cycle, so in a typical DE day if you had 4 sessions you'd have 4 heat cycles.
     
  5. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Hoosier's are the best, but seriously, I'd only get them if your in competition. It's bigtime overkill for HPDE's. IMHO, it's not worth it, unless you have money to burn. It's a pain buying new tires every few events...

    I have an R53, and run 15 inch, but 16 and 17 are all over the place on the track as well.

    There are a number of good tires out there; I'm trying Nitto-01's this year--got a good deal on them, they don't need to be shaved, and have pretty darned good performance. Toyo R888's (Compound is the same as the Nitto's, tread pattern and sizing is a bit different), Kumho's (don't last as long as the others), etc. all are good tires--it really depends on price and preference. You end up trying a few before you find the one that works best for you.

    If you get R-comps, you don't want them as an everyday driver--you'll need a second set of rims. You probably know that, but I couldn't tell from your original post what your intentions are. R-comps are a dedicated track tire.
     
  6. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

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    From my Quickie Guide to Tires:

    215/40-17
    Kumho V710

    225/40-17
    Hoosier R6


    ...also you could run a Hoosier R6 in 205/40-17, but why not run the above 225? Also there's the Nitto NT01 in 205/40-17 or 215/45-17, but being a 100 treadwear it'll be a bit slower than the above two. Lastly the Yokohama A048 in 215/45-17 if you want something taller and between the NT01 and Hoosier in grip.

    Since you're running lowering springs I'd shy away from the taller 215/45-17 size, as you'll rub. The 225/40-17 Hoosier is the serious business for track work, get that one, it will squeeze on a 7" wheel.

    Thank goodness you're getting rid of those Goodyear GS-D3's, they SUCK for steering feel!

    Keep in mind these are not "race" tires, just DOT approved "R" compounds. This means they're perfect for HPDE/lapping days and yet you won't get a ticket if you happen to drive on them on public roads from the track to the gas station. I definitely don't recommend driving more than a couple miles on public roads with Hoosiers as they are scary when cold on non-track surfaces.
     
  7. scott@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

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    Nitto NT-01's are quite impressive for what they are - a 2nd tier r-comp. They are MUCH stickier than street tires, yet MUCH more forgiving than Hoosiers. And they are freakin' cheap in comparison... Hoosiers are great and craploads of fun - until they let go. NT-01's (and other 2nd tier r-comps) actually give you some fair warning before they give it up. They don't have the ultimate grip of the Hoosier or the V710, but then again, they are more forgiving, last longer, etc.

    If you have never been on r-comps, I would highly recommend going with a 2nd tier r-comp tire - NT-01's (fave and cheaper), R888's (eh), Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (quite fun), etc. If you have experience on r-comps, the bankroll to do it, and want to step up, then the Hoosier R6 would be the way to go. But I would never, ever, EVER recommend someone go out and hit the track on R6's if they had no experience on r-comps.

    Other benefits to the NT-01's - no need to get them heat cycled, no need to get them shaved (unless, of course, you want to for 'max' performance (which also shortens the useable life and IMHO is silly)), and they actually WORK on a wet track.
     
  8. old81

    old81 Club Coordinator
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    Nice replies

    Thanks for all the recommendations.

    To clarify, I have about 12 years running my Alfa GT and Hmod in vintage racing, I know the R compound tires pretty well.

    I ran in SCCA for 8 years in the 70s, I really did like the GY bluesteak slicks. :lol:

    These tires will be on a 7 or 7.5 wheel on the 09 JCW, whatever will fit over the brakes. :)

    Currently the 09 JCW is stock height, probably will put on the TSW R56 springs. So the drop will be modest.

    Do you thing the 225/45/17 will rub with a modest drop? Noted some concern about a 215/45/17 rubbing?

    Now for my MCSa, I will put some RE-11s on my 16s, if I can get the proper tire size.

    Btw, I liked the GY F1s, if you adjust your driving style, they go very fast. :devil:

    Again thanks, lots of good information. That is what MA is all about.

    Don
     
  9. Bimmer Lite

    Bimmer Lite New Member

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    Where are you guys finding your NT-01s for good prices?

    - Marc
     
  10. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

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    The Hoosier is a very predictable tire at the limit in my experience. Then again we run very different suspension setups at the track.

    +1 where you're finding cheap Nittos.

    What bothers me about the GS-D3's is their ultra-flimsy sidewalls. Once they're setup in a steady state corner they improve to "sub-par" feedback, but anything resembling a transition and their resonant frequency is lower than a '68 Caddy with blown out dampers. With my bushing-free suspension, the tire is the only "give" in the system. With something as sloppy as the GS-D3, it's just too big a mismatch in precision.
     
  11. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    #11 Nathan, Jun 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
    I've been getting them from Discount Tire..they have an online deal for $169 ea for a 225/45-17 incl shipping. My local store will honor that price.

    Fits my R56 thats lowered. Track wheels have a 42 Offset and the fronts have in effect a 5mm spacer from the hats in the TSW BDM BBK.

    See http://us.ebid.net/perl/auction.cgi?mo=auction&auction=13896015&from=googlebase


    Edit...I have an R53...I must have been smoking crack when I typed R56
     
  12. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

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    same compound. what don't you like about the R888's? My buddy runs them on his GT3 RS and is quite happy with them.
     
  13. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    While the NT-01 and R88 share a compound they fell different. Having used both the NT-01 has a crisper turn in. May have something to do with the fact the tire has more square shoulder.

    I've run the both on the same track and while my times are not consistent enough to be a tire tester for either company I like the feel of the NT-01 over the R888. On the street however, the R888 has a better ride.
     
  14. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

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    FWIW, the short drive I took Nathan's car to the Dam and back at MOTD I was surprised at how progressive the R888's were. You could tell you were approaching the limit from miles away, LOL. Maybe a bit too progressive? I haven't used the NT01, but I'm not surprised to hear they have more initial bite than the R888 despite being the same compound.
     
  15. old81

    old81 Club Coordinator
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    #15 old81, Jun 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
    I can see what your saying since you are bushing-free and tight. I could feel the GS-D3 with my R56 and the TSW springs and Hotchkiss 19mm rear bar, set soft.

    It was easy for me to adjust my driving style to the tire and enjoy it.

    Although, if I want to go faster in the corners, I will have to get one of the Max perf. tires. All for the fun.! :D

    Good commentary, I have not heard the 68 Caddy comment in a long time, my last Caddy was a 66 Black Limo. :lol:

    Here is a picture of the MINIs at HPR last Sunday, my MCSa is the DS and the JCW is behind, cooling off after a 20 minutes session.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Bimmer Lite

    Bimmer Lite New Member

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    So you guys like the NT-01s better than the RA-1s? Phil's Tire still has some RA-1s left - wondering which to pull the trigger on.

    205/50/15 will serve me as well as 225/45, yes?

    - Marc
     
  17. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    Nate, just to confirm, you are only running the 225/45/17s on the R56, right?
    I've got an R52 w/TSW springs and some fixed camber plates... any suggested sizes > 205/45/17s in an R-compound?

    Did you find that 215/40s were more or less to your liking?

    (PS. These would be on 17x7.5" wheels)
     
  18. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    R53...very late build but still an R53.
     
  19. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    OK... so that means this must have been typo, else I thought you bought a second Mini!

    So you are able to get the 225/45/17s under the R53.
    How much trimming/rolling/finessing was required?

    Or was it simple a matter of having a good offset and good camber numbers to tuck everything in ok?

    The RE-01Rs in 205/45/17 are on their last legs. Tire wear has been beautiful with them though, everything is nice and squared off, etc.

    Looks like maybe 225/45/17s will be next then!
     
  20. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Yeah, that was crack pipe moment. I made of note of that in the other post.

    The 225's were self trimming.. A little of inside of the rear arches is has been worn away.

    Camber is 2.5 in the front and 1.8 in the rear.

    The real trick is the springs in the front. With standard beehive type springs they will never fit but with a smaller diameter cylindrical spring such as a Swift it works.
     

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