Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S Most liked posts in thread: TVS1320 + small displacement

So, the 4-lobe setup is now available from Magnuson (another way to spell Eaton):

Magnuson 6th gen superchargers

To put one on a MINI, you'd need to add an electric water pump. That's not a problem.

 

with an electric water pump, be sure to use a check valve to protect against surge

 

The text reads they they worked with both.

From reading the Harrop site it looks like they also share engineering notes with Eaton.

 

BOE has been using the TVS in the Lotus now for a least a year. It hasn't been uber successful because BOE doesn't have an ECU flash solution and all TVS users need to go to a standalone ECU. It's an awesome solution but mega $$$$!!! Harrop is the Australian interface to buy them, since Magneson is synonymous with donkey hole.

Pay no attention to the torque curves, the 2ZZ can't make torque to save its life. [it's Japanese afterall!]

 

interesting. I get 315lb/ft at the wheels out of my Japanese four-banger.

 

My mistake. Subaru and Mitsubishi can actually make it happen. It's Honda and Toyota that own the stereotype [since their production volumes far outweigh the prior two].

 

Um, good to know, I guess.

 

I think the TVS1320 mated to this engine

is more of a match of convinience than an ideal pairing. I'm pretty sure the 1320 can push air into a much larger displacment motor, so it's probably spinning pretty slow on the little engines. But what choice does one currently have?

Matt

 

The TVS 900 would be ideal for the MINI 1600cc engine but Eaton has still not released it. Jan from RMW used the TVS 1320 on his 2.0L stroker engine.

 

different motors entirely between the two turbo cars and the n/a ones you're referring to. That said, The new K24 from Honda can make a ton of power without forced induction. 300whp and torque not far behind. Of course, it needs 10k rpm to do that.

 

If I ever run across some money I don't know how to spend, I'd like to build a K Series swap. Something people wouldn't expect*






* meaning, Honda guys wouldn't come looking for parts without permission

 

I did some back of the envelope math....

the 1.6l motor would have to spin about 11k rpm to use the flow of the tvs1320 at peak efficiency. It would only have to turn about 7500 to optimally use the 900..... I did some really rough assumptions in this calc. So they could be ~20% off or so. Another interesting thing is that on a 1.6 l motor, the best 1320 drive ration would be LESS than 1:1! that's a SC pulley that's larger than the crank pulley. For the 900, it's about a 2.5:1 drive ratio.....

The Eaton site references a 1050 that there's no efficincy map for though. That would probably be pretty sweet! So I'm guessing that they modelled a full range of these suckers, and are only building them as the OEMs have enough interest. Mostly that's for V6 and V8 apps. Smallest factory app I know of is Audis 3.0 TFSI apps....

Matt

 

i was doing some calcs like this the other day and running the 15% sc pully to ~8000rpm engine speed the sc sucks in about 425 cfm or 720 m^3/hr at a pressure ratio of approx 2.

(calcs with some old ref, extrapolation and what not)

on the 1320 that would be a sc speed of about 10000rpm w/ 70% efficiency

on the 900 about 14000rpm w/ ~68% efficiency

m62 about 12000rpm w/ ~58% efficiency

on our m45 about 20000rpm w/ 45-55% efficiency (guess, map doesn't go that high)

i don't know if there are stall speeds like on turbos or how falling below the map works but for the 1320 that would have to be a rather large sc pulley and much of the capacity would be wasted as was the issue with the m62 years back iirc.

a 900 or 1050 would be nice though.

-Jonathan

 

No stall speed

cause it's a posative displacement pump.... But the math can't be argued with, the 1320 leaves a lot on the table for a small motor, but it's all that is there now.

FWIW, a 3.3 liter one on a fancy ford 5 liter (from the GT500) can spit out 1000 hp.

Matt

 

no stall speed makes sense.

any drop in efficiency at low rotor speeds?

-Jonathan

 

That's a zeroth order..

eventually, the high side pressure gets so high that some reversion and leakage equals the ability to pump air, but it's at so high a pressure and so low an efficiency that it's more of an air heater than a pump.

And like all gizmos, there is a very slight bit of leakage (that's why some roots blowers have an abradable coating, they just wear to tight tolerance) and this becomes a larger percentage of air moved as rotor speeds get very low. But this isn't much of an issue if you look at the efficiency map of the 1320, it gets it's best TEs at 7000-10000 RPM (I think, I'm not looking at the map now).

Matt