Brakes Wheels 2nd Gen Tires Tyres, Tires, Tars.....

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Minidave, Apr 3, 2011.

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  1. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    OK all you tire and alignment experts, weigh in with your thoughts here, please!

    I had a set of '07 S-lites I bought, mounted up a new set of Kumho Ecsta ASX All Season Ultra High Performance tires from TR and ran them for 15,000 miles with no issues on my '03 JCW. When I bought my '09 Clubman I moved the wheels and tires over to it and ran them for another 18K, again with no issues. I was so happy with those tires I bought a set for my Lexus ES 300 and later for my wife's Audi Allroad. Neither of theose cars have had any problems either, although I sold the Lexus so I no longer have the current info on how it's doing.

    So, I bought yet another set, bought the tire pressure sensors and had them mounted up, everything works fine, and while I was at the tire store (NTW) I went ahead and had them align the Clubby while it was in there, but they said it was mostly in spec, they only made a small adjustment.

    Now, I'll be the first to admit that I let them go too long without a rotation this time (in the past I did it in conjunction with my twice yearly/7,500 mile oil changes) and they went 12K before I got them swapped around, mostly because the dealer did the in between oil change instead of me.

    The fronts were worn evenly, and about 1/2 way to the wearbars, the rears were heavily feathered on the inside edge, and when I moved them to the front I immediately noticed how loud they were! Nasty loud!

    So I took it back to NTW who put it on the machine and said everything was in spec, they had nothing to offer except that had I brought it to them they would have rotated them for me for free ..........yes, I know.

    After another week went by, I decided to seek a second opinion and took it to a different and well regarded tire shop, they put it on the machine and said it was toe'd in badly in the back, and that they couldn't get it into spec with the adjustments that were available - they also said the front was fine.

    Perplexed, I decided to go to the source and spend the $200 the dealer wanted and let them check it - luckily my wife found a coupon the dealer sent that very week for a $99 alignment! Score!

    They put it on the rack and called me and said - nothing wrong, alignment well in spec. They said they could adjust it a little, but really it was OK just the way it was.

    So..................just lack of rotation, that's my whole problem?

    I'm going to burn these tires off at the track this summer and buy a new set just before MITM, I'd hate to ruin those in only 12K too.....

    Whadya think?
     
  2. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    Yep...If I rotate mine every 3,000 miles I have no issues. The first set on my '04 several years ago went about 10K without rotation and they too were nasty noisy. I learned my lesson, bought a racing jack from Harbor Freight and rotate them myself every 3K.
     
  3. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Not an expert but from past experience, I'd vote for the second opinion and say something is wrong with the rear alignment..... Wouldn't show up as bad with regular alignment but the fronts usually wear more than the rears on front wheel drive and it sounds like you are opposite....2 cents
     
  4. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Well, I made a similar assumption, except the fronts are worn way more than the rears - the rears show no wear at all except for the inside edges.

    I've got two shops (including the dealer) telling me all is well - btw, the dealer's tech who did the alignment is their senior tech with almost 30 years in the biz and while that's no guarantee, I tend to trust his word. When I spoke to him about the discrepancy between the shops he said he thought the guy who claimed it was out in the back didn't have the machine set right. He was confident of his work tho..... :confused5:

    I find it hard to believe it's not out in the back, however, I expected it to be toe'd out, not in. To my mind, toe-in would be more likely to wear the outside edges......

    Still wondering.....
     
  5. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    To much negative camber in the rear would do that too.... Just makes no sense from what you describe that all is well, yet there is excessive wear on the inside of the rear tires.... :(
     
  6. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    According to everything I've read, excess camber will wear the insides, but it does so evenly. Feathering is strictly the provence of incorrect toe according to what I've read....or bad tires, such as a belt gone awry. Seems odd that it could happen to both tho, so back to square one....
     
  7. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    #7 Crashton, Apr 3, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
    Feathering does not sound like camber to me. I'm sure some of the wear is camber, but the feathering seems like a toe problem. You are correct in your thoughts Dave.

    I thought you posted over on the other un-named site that you could not get the rear alignment correct, because they did not have enough adjustment available? Maybe I'm mistaking you with someone else.

    EDIT...Time to take a die grinder to the holes & elongate them so you can get the toe where it needs to be. I think that is your only way, other than throwing parts at it.
     
  8. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Agree feathering is more of a toe problem, just looking for some reason for the uneven tire wear. Still say the second opinion is closer to correct than the others.... Thing I would ask is why there isn't enough adjustment to correct the toe? There is a fair amount of adjustment and you should he able to correct, if done right.. Wonder if at one time someone tried to adjust the toe incorrectly, I have heard of folks trying to adjust with the control arms which will take you down a hole you don't want to go....if that is the case, it might not be obvious at first glance... 2cents
     
  9. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Yes, that's what the second shop says, the other two say it's all hunky-dory and the second shop must not have have the machine set up right or hooked on the wheels right.

    I tend to agree with them for two reasons, again I think if it's anything, it's toed out and two out of three shops say it's not out of whack at all!

    I'm very confused at this point, but I'm going to call Alex at Trie Rack in the morning and ask him what he thinks.

    BTW, the MINI SA says it's not uncommon for MINIs to wear their rear tires like this - he didn't say why.
     
  10. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought... have you seen or asked the tech what the alignment numbers are? You might be getting an alignment "within the spec" but the wheels are still toe'd in a lot. I'm not sure what the R56 spec is, but the R53 spec is 1/8" to 1/4" rear toe in. Maybe with the roads you usually drive or the sensitivity of the tires to feathering, the stock spec is too much toe in, even though you're still "within spec." Ask for a printout from the alignment machine if you take it in again.
     
  11. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    :Thumbsup:....exactly.

    Can't tell if it is a concern w/o the numbers.
     
  12. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I have the printout, I'll scan it in and post it up a little later today for you all......
     
  13. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    That's because "in-spec" often isn't very good....

    Exactly. Screw the "specs." Tell them your own numbers (perhaps 0 toe and less negative camber) and make sure the numbers you get are the numbers you requested. Enjoy better handling and longer lasting tires.

    - Andrew
     
  14. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Good point!

    When I get mine aligned, I tell them exactly the specs I want and stay back there with them until those specs are achieved... Don't want close, want those specs exactly. Now I do always use the same Guy at a friends shop and I do slip the tech an extra $20.00 or more for his time and trouble... ;)
     

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