Suspension Brakes Most liked posts in thread: Walking the line... street & HPDE car build

Sorry, late to the party on this response. In case the 15" kool aide starts to get a bit strong, imagine a world where you're running 13" rotors and no ducting. You stop on a dime all day long and your front pads wear 1mm over 2 days. Totally, unquestionably reliable brakes, and rotors that take forever to wear down. No need to constantly bleed brakes and change fluid all the time, no wheel bearing failures. That's life with 17" wheels and massive brakes. My K1 17x7.5 track wheels are 16.7 lbs, and yes tires are a bit more expensive, but the sacrifices aren't that big.

Someday I'll be good enough to feel the difference in handling, but I've got 35 track days under my belt and it'll still be a while. Conti Tire MINI race teams run 15" wheels, but they're stuck using stock calipers. Look at purpose-built cars and they're using the biggest brakes they can find. That's my two cents.

 

Ben, all of what you say is true. The fifteen inch brake setup wears out quicker and is more labor intensive. But 15's are the fastest setup on a MINI (as well as a Miata); this is by race teams that have done the math. The Miata guys in particular; some of them are running 15x10's now. If I wasn't so OCD, I'd go back to a larger diameter, that's what I started with. But the 15x9 front 15x8 rear is so good as to be disgusting, enough so that I'm willing to deal with more rotor/pad changes with the 15's. I'd still bleed before every event though, even if I sure the brakes never got hot.

Still, the purpose built Miata's run 15's, and they could run larger if they wanted. Same with many of the MINI's in race series, check RMW's board. The extra one inch drop, the tire width, the gearing, it's just hard to give that up, the car handles better, and with the wide tread, the braking/cornering is unbelievalbly good. I have to make a conscious effort not to scrub speed when I corner there is so much grip.

I wish you could drive my car sometime,you're probably better than I am--you're definitely good enough you'd feel the difference.

For what it's worth, I have no problems with consistency--I do have ducting-but I've never had fade with my current setup, not once. I go through rotors/pads, but fade is not an issue--brakes are as good at the beginning of the day as they are in the 5th session at the end of the day, and as good at 30 minutes or slightly longer than they are at 5. It's one thing I absolutely love about this kit, having had serious issues with brake fade with the stock brakes, the R53 JCW kit (which led to an off), and Wilwoods on an 11.75 rotor.

I get the 13's though--it does make this easier. Now for drinking the 15 inch kool-aid, that's a little harsh...:mad2: We usually associate kool-aid drinking with something else in the MINI world, which I will avoid mentioning to maintain civility.....:biggrin5:

 

All your points are fair. If you're comfortable with your trade-offs, I'm comfortable with mine. Also, my engine is stock and I'm on street tires (for now*), so I'm not going as fast or braking as hard. And my "kool-aid" reference might have been a bit too far... :biggrin5: I just wanted to voice a different school of thought.

I got burned when a brake duct shifted around, rubbed on the crank pulley, and exposed a wire. That wire managed to slice open the axle boot and spew axle grease all over the inside of my wheel during a 10-hour drive up to Watkins Glen. So I'm not the biggest fan of ducts and will avoid them unless absolutely necessary.

I'd like to find a bracket that fit behind my 13" rotors for a 2.5" duct - 3" was too big, couldn't keep it out of the way. I sold my Sneed's kit because it didn't fit when I made the switch, having already customized** it for the TSW 12.2" MDM kit.

*Just bought a set of lightly used NT-01s, not sure how my impending nuptials will affect the track budget this year.
**Thanks to BlimeyCabrio's expert metalworking skills.

 

You will LOVE the Nitto's Ben. Hopefully not more than your bride to be, but it'll be closer than you'd think :biggrin5: (and gratz btw).

I'll take a picture of my current ducts--they were easy to fab, did them quickly, but with aircraft grade aluminum 2.5 inch clamps, they're easy to do, and easy to route anyway you'd like (but I figured out a few do's and don't since I did them), when I tear them down this spring I'll snap a few shots. Cheap too.

I'm switching to Jan's ducts this year as soon as I can get him to get me the bolts, been waiting on those. I like the idea of ducts with backing plates.

 

Great thread guys!

I am currently transitioning to a more track oriented set-up and there is a lot of good info being shared.

On the topic of brakes, last year on my 09' JCW I started the season on XP8 F/stock R and found the them to fade only a few laps in. Moved up to XP10 F and had much better performance but did have some mild fluid boil/mushy pedal by the end of the session.

This year not taking any chances and moving to XP12 F/XP10 R as well as the sneed speed brake cooling kit for R56. Kit looks great, he is currently throwing in two free bottles of Motul.

Looking forward to spring and getting out on the track!

 

Yup can't wait to have them fail again...:lol::lol::lol:

 

Don't rule out your braking technique either. I'm not sure what your experience level is, but the better you are at threshhold braking the less thermal stress you will put on your pads and fluid. Early on I had a habit of getting off the gas, and taking wayyyyyy too much time putting the brake pedal down. An instructor quickly corrected me and gave me a great lecture on threshold braking. Use it to your advantage!

 

Brakes:get the best set you can that fits the fifteens that you can afford. Stainless lines are a must long-term. Stock is ok to start with. The only thing I'd do for the rears is the pads, as you mentioned, and change the bushings, which takes like 5 minutes, unless the R56 rears have done away with the crappy R53 style rear bushings, not sure on that someone else can chime in.

I have 19 solid sway bar on full stiff, if I had it to do over again I'd do a 22 hollow, but it's not a big issue. 25 is pretty aggressive, IMHO people tend to go overboard on sway bars, but that's my opinion--25 (again this is just my opinion, others will disagree) would probably better for autox, 22 hollow, great for the track, especially if you're just starting. I have an R53, and maybe the 25 is better for the R56, again someone with an R56 can chime in here.

Love swift springs, not a huge fan of BC, you might want to go to a dedicated suspension thread. I have KW V2s that I really like, but I'm swapping to JRZ's this year.


You do not want fixed camber plates. You won't be able to get enough camber from them, and they can be quite a bit off from side to side. Whatever you choose for camber plates, get good adjustable ones.

The 949's are good, I run 15x9 up front, 15x8 in rear. 15x7 is fine, it won't rub, you may get a little rubbing with 15x8s and you will need spacers. I prefer 225x45x15 to 205x50 15's, they handle better, but 205's are good too--just not as good.

I think the offset on the 949's are +38 but I'd have to double check on that.

I'd seriously consider a different rim for street and track. You'll be able to use a stickier tire for the track; using street tires on the track is a great way to start, but you'll want to move up quick, and track tires don't last long on the street. You can run 17's or 16's on the street, and not have to worry about being too low on the 15's--and you will be low on 15's.

It's ok to start with the street tire setup, but be aware that you if you get hooked into this, 2-3 HPDE's a year won't be enough, and it's easier to do it right, especially with regard to the suspension, the first time then constantly revising it--ask me how I know...

And that's a nice looking car, nice job.

 

^^^ great advice

 

The IE fixed plates are a short term solution to what's going to be a long term deal for you. Spend the extra dough on the adjustables. You'll find a TON of people going from fixed IE's to a quality adjustable. You won't find a single person on here who has gone from a decent adjustable to fixed IE's. You will end up wanting to play with camber to find what works best for you, its different for everyone.

I have two sets of rims, the 15's for track, 16's for street. I am low on the fifteens, as in I have to hit inclines diagonally type of low, but I also have a splitter on the the front. With 16's, I'm ok. What you might want to do is start on 17's with ultra performance summer tires for street and track, and buy a set of 15's when you're ready for R-comps (and yes I'd hold off on R-comps until you have some seat time--they do hide mistakes, and they don't have as much feedback before they break loose.). The 949s aren't that expensive; you can get them used from the Miata crowd cheap. 15's can't be beat for the track, and there are awesome and relative cheap very good R-comps in that size.

 

If you want good brakes and only have to buy the whole setup once get the RMW / Brakeman set up and skip over the TCE / Wilwood kits.

CCT1 can tell you all about brakes as I think he has tested every brake package available.

I know others that have had the Bilsteins with Swift springs and loved them and I have custom KW V'2 with Swifts and like them the best as I have had a few setups.

 

Yes, you will be able to adjust ride height and maintain suspension travel. Adjusting roll center unfortunately, at least on the R53, requires a bit of modification, and most people leave it.