Sorry, late to the party on this response. In case the 15" kool aide starts to get a bit strong, imagine a world where you're running 13" rotors and no ducting. You stop on a dime all day long and your front pads wear 1mm over 2 days. Totally, unquestionably reliable brakes, and rotors that take forever to wear down. No need to constantly bleed brakes and change fluid all the time, no wheel bearing failures. That's life with 17" wheels and massive brakes. My K1 17x7.5 track wheels are 16.7 lbs, and yes tires are a bit more expensive, but the sacrifices aren't that big. Someday I'll be good enough to feel the difference in handling, but I've got 35 track days under my belt and it'll still be a while. Conti Tire MINI race teams run 15" wheels, but they're stuck using stock calipers. Look at purpose-built cars and they're using the biggest brakes they can find. That's my two cents.
Ben, all of what you say is true. The fifteen inch brake setup wears out quicker and is more labor intensive. But 15's are the fastest setup on a MINI (as well as a Miata); this is by race teams that have done the math. The Miata guys in particular; some of them are running 15x10's now. If I wasn't so OCD, I'd go back to a larger diameter, that's what I started with. But the 15x9 front 15x8 rear is so good as to be disgusting, enough so that I'm willing to deal with more rotor/pad changes with the 15's. I'd still bleed before every event though, even if I sure the brakes never got hot. Still, the purpose built Miata's run 15's, and they could run larger if they wanted. Same with many of the MINI's in race series, check RMW's board. The extra one inch drop, the tire width, the gearing, it's just hard to give that up, the car handles better, and with the wide tread, the braking/cornering is unbelievalbly good. I have to make a conscious effort not to scrub speed when I corner there is so much grip. I wish you could drive my car sometime,you're probably better than I am--you're definitely good enough you'd feel the difference. For what it's worth, I have no problems with consistency--I do have ducting-but I've never had fade with my current setup, not once. I go through rotors/pads, but fade is not an issue--brakes are as good at the beginning of the day as they are in the 5th session at the end of the day, and as good at 30 minutes or slightly longer than they are at 5. It's one thing I absolutely love about this kit, having had serious issues with brake fade with the stock brakes, the R53 JCW kit (which led to an off), and Wilwoods on an 11.75 rotor. I get the 13's though--it does make this easier. Now for drinking the 15 inch kool-aid, that's a little harsh...:mad2: We usually associate kool-aid drinking with something else in the MINI world, which I will avoid mentioning to maintain civility.....:biggrin5:
I don't care if it's kool-aid or crystal light, I'm in for a set of Brakemans and 15x8s. Now someone find me some 6UL 15x8s for sale used. Or does anyone know when the new 15x8 6ULs go for sale? #stuckonsnows
All your points are fair. If you're comfortable with your trade-offs, I'm comfortable with mine. Also, my engine is stock and I'm on street tires (for now*), so I'm not going as fast or braking as hard. And my "kool-aid" reference might have been a bit too far... :biggrin5: I just wanted to voice a different school of thought. I got burned when a brake duct shifted around, rubbed on the crank pulley, and exposed a wire. That wire managed to slice open the axle boot and spew axle grease all over the inside of my wheel during a 10-hour drive up to Watkins Glen. So I'm not the biggest fan of ducts and will avoid them unless absolutely necessary. I'd like to find a bracket that fit behind my 13" rotors for a 2.5" duct - 3" was too big, couldn't keep it out of the way. I sold my Sneed's kit because it didn't fit when I made the switch, having already customized** it for the TSW 12.2" MDM kit. *Just bought a set of lightly used NT-01s, not sure how my impending nuptials will affect the track budget this year. **Thanks to BlimeyCabrio's expert metalworking skills.
Very good info in this thread and it is nice just to sit back, read and learn from those that know. Kudos to all you guys for the insight. Oh as for the rims you are looking for you may want to try finding a set used on eBay or Google. Someone has to have them.
yes, big thank you for all those that gave their $0.02 cents. Much appreciated it. I tend to over-analyze things and this forum supports that.
You will LOVE the Nitto's Ben. Hopefully not more than your bride to be, but it'll be closer than you'd think :biggrin5: (and gratz btw). I'll take a picture of my current ducts--they were easy to fab, did them quickly, but with aircraft grade aluminum 2.5 inch clamps, they're easy to do, and easy to route anyway you'd like (but I figured out a few do's and don't since I did them), when I tear them down this spring I'll snap a few shots. Cheap too. I'm switching to Jan's ducts this year as soon as I can get him to get me the bolts, been waiting on those. I like the idea of ducts with backing plates.
Great thread guys! I am currently transitioning to a more track oriented set-up and there is a lot of good info being shared. On the topic of brakes, last year on my 09' JCW I started the season on XP8 F/stock R and found the them to fade only a few laps in. Moved up to XP10 F and had much better performance but did have some mild fluid boil/mushy pedal by the end of the session. This year not taking any chances and moving to XP12 F/XP10 R as well as the sneed speed brake cooling kit for R56. Kit looks great, he is currently throwing in two free bottles of Motul. Looking forward to spring and getting out on the track!
I picked up a set of RMW Brakeman 12.2in rotors and low profile calipers. No brake ducting at this time, we'll see if I need it for my given (newbie) self on the track.
You may not need ducting now, but you will at some point, count on it. The good news is you know which brake ducts to get, and where to get them.:smilewinkgrin: You're going to want to do that sooner than later. It saves rotor life, pad life, and brake fluid life. Nothing is worse than calling it a day, when you're kicking butt, because you need to bleed the brakes.
^^^ Yup I have a brake upgrade sitting in my garage now along with a bunch of stuff I do every Spring before the Dragon.
Since this pic I've added camber plates and schroth harnesses and I just ordered an R56 turbo to recondition, haha.
Great thread! Just finished up installing my tc kline suspension on my 09' JCW and am trying to figure out the best ride height.... Currently 10" F, 11" R, To bottom of metal body panel. I found the mini challenge min ride height and it is 9.5" F, 10.5 R figured .5" higher would be a good start. Currently the car is pretty low.... Have any of you guys experimented with ride height? Rake amount? This is my track car so no street compromise... Yay for track day season to get going!
Ride height depends somewhat on tire size and how much weight you've removed from the car. One good rule of thumb is to keep the front control arms parallel to the ground - no lower. After that you're pretty much just trying to keep weight on the front wheels. Aren't a lot of hard and fast guidelines for ride height on a MINI.
Don't rule out your braking technique either. I'm not sure what your experience level is, but the better you are at threshhold braking the less thermal stress you will put on your pads and fluid. Early on I had a habit of getting off the gas, and taking wayyyyyy too much time putting the brake pedal down. An instructor quickly corrected me and gave me a great lecture on threshold braking. Use it to your advantage!