Most liked posts in thread: Waterless Engine Coolant

Considering I have 2 cars with this - both driven very hard when driven - one pretty much with only hard track miles ad the other with over 80,000 miles running NPG and driven hard daily and very hard at 3 MOTD's now.. I will say it's not snake oil. Making a statement like that with no experience and based on reading online tells me someone is a couch enthusiast -i.e they know everything when they are on their couch.

My both cars have (daily driven MCS included) have aftermarket ECU's that give a wide range of readouts and I spent months logging data - fact is it runs cooler and has no high pressure. Take it for what it's worth.

The whole reason I started using this stuff was after going to the track for a driving event and talking with others running their cars there. Two identically prepared M3's with data loggers were running and comparing data and the NPG coolant car was had lower ECT's and consequently was able to add in a couple more degrees of timing consistently.

 

I just stumbled upon this thread. Interesting ... but I agree with some on here that think its snake oil.

If this had any real merit then the OEMs would adopt it. If the cooling is so much better using this "elixir" then OEMs could use a small radiator for the same amount of heat rejection. Small radiator = lower weight = smaller engine compartment. So why aren't they using it?

The snake oil people always claim that big bad Mr. OEM has a "not invented here" mentality. Not so...if there were a measurable advantage (with no ill effects) then it would be universally accepted.

No offense intended to those who use it. If it works for you, great. I am simply a skeptic.
...and a heat transfer engineer.

 

Old thread on the matter with links in to older threads.

http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/cooper-s/6557-evans-npg-coolant.html#axzz2IFL9rzJs

 

I've been running it in my track VW for about 7 years and I had loweer ECT temps by 7-10 degrees - I monitored through the engine management system (not factory ECU). I have been running it in my R53 MCS for the past 5 years - and have no complaints.

 

They don't say what it is, I wouldn't put anything in my car unless I knew what is in it!

Q. What is Evans Waterless Coolant made of?
A. Evans Waterless Coolant is a patented non-toxic liquid comprising of blended heat transfer fluids and a proprietary inhibitor package

That just screams "snake oil" to me!

Dave

 

I've done some research and found that Evans Waterless Coolant is just propylene glycol.

So they don't have a patent on it, lots of other companies sell it. It has a boiling point of 370 F, but it doesn't transfer heat as well as the gold standard of coolants, Water!

It is most often used in heavy equipment that is designed with excess cooling capacity to make up for it's poor heat transfer abilities.

I thought that they hyped it a little too much.

I still wouldn't put it in my car, unless it was diluted 50% with water.

Dave

 

If you think that is a ok or not a bad thing - please surrender your car and license somewhere.

Localised boiling can lead to hot spots as it usually occurs where the coolant flow is not such that fresh coolant arrives quickly enough. This in turn leads to little trapped vapor pockets since air / vapor is a very poor conductor of heat the localised spot gets much hotter than areas around it, and lastly there is the pressure differential created when a liquid expands into a gas - this is UNDESIRABLE in an automotive cooling system.

I would also like to ask you to investigate what vapor lock means - in the context of a pressurized cooling system. Add this to what I posted above and you will realize the complete folly of your statement.

 

Heat added to a liquid to cause a change of state to a gas/vapor. (One pound of water at 212°F becomes one pound of steam at 212°F when 970.3 BTU's of heat are added)

 

I know alot of turbo diesel guys that use it. Great stuff. Not sure if I would run it in my MCS and my reasoning is the MINI is a BMW and will have cooling issues.

 

:cornut: There was a whole thread on 'Waterless Cooling' here on MA several years ago. I can't find it but I remember it. Maybe 'Metalman', our tech guru can find it.

Jason

 

:cornut: Thanks Nathan.

Jason

 

LOL.....still waiting to see if anyone has any hands-on experience myself

 

Alright I'll let the cat out of the bag and actually admit I sell NPG+ here at work. I have never sold it to a BMW or MINI customer. It's always a diesel truck or musclecar or big turbo'd JDM guy that buys NPG+. I wanted to put it in my MCS but my experience with BMWs is that they have coolant leaks. Which I've had with this car. So I didn't swap it over. But from what I've heard from customers and friends that use it, it's awesome. The motor runs cooler.

 

I watched that episode of WD last night too, and that was the first I'd ever heard of that stuff.

The part that was interesting to me was the part about getting every drop of water out of the system before you put the other stuff in, and the length's he went thru to do that. He said that could take as much as a week of filling and refilling the system. Wow.

But that was pretty cool when he took the radiator cap off under full temp and there was no pressure release.

So, what is this stuff exactly, and if you decided to go back to water/glycol mix, what steps would you have to take?

 

NPG+ Waterless Coolant Installation Instructions

1. Remove radiator drain plug or lower radiator hose at the radiator nipple. Drain fluid into catch pan.

2. Remove engine block drain plug. Drain fluid into catch pan.

3. Remove thermostat. This will allow coolant in the upper engine to drain.

4. Disconnect at least one end of each coolant hose that you can access, and allow coolant to drain.

5. Remove one of the heater hoses that runs through the firewall to the heater core. Allow the fluid to drain.

If you have compressed air (or a tube that you can slide over the nipple, to blow through), gently blow
through the water pipe and heater core (use low pressure–20psi or less). You must have the heater controls
set to full hot. On electrically controlled models, the key must be in the “RUN” position.

6. Install the thermostat housing (without the thermostat, if possible). Don’t worry about using a new gasket,
at this point. Replace all drain plugs and all hoses that were removed or disconnected.

7. Fill the system with water and run the engine. Keep heater set to full hot. If the thermostat is in place, run
the engine until full operating temperature is reached. You can leave the radiator/reservoir cap off during
this step. This will keep the system from building pressure as the coolant warms up.

8. Allow engine and coolant to cool a bit and repeat Steps 1 through 4.

9. Reconnect all hoses. Install all drain plugs. Install thermostat with new gasket or o-ring.

10. Fill cooling system with NPG+. Start engine and follow standard cooling system bleeding process as outlined in the appropriate repair manual.

These are the NPG+ Instructions my work wrote up.

 

Probably referring to an old BMW. Like a 2002 or e30.

 

Yeah, removing the t-stat on a MINI is not fun, and it's even more complex on 2nd gen cars .....I think I'd go ahead and buy that flush stuff from them and use that.