Waterless Engine Coolant

Discussion in 'General Technical Questions and Answers' started by Friskie, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

    May 21, 2009
    387
    217
    43
    NJ
    Ratings:
    +217 / 0 / -0
    #21 WolfGTI, Jan 18, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
    Considering I have 2 cars with this - both driven very hard when driven - one pretty much with only hard track miles ad the other with over 80,000 miles running NPG and driven hard daily and very hard at 3 MOTD's now.. I will say it's not snake oil. Making a statement like that with no experience and based on reading online tells me someone is a couch enthusiast -i.e they know everything when they are on their couch.

    My both cars have (daily driven MCS included) have aftermarket ECU's that give a wide range of readouts and I spent months logging data - fact is it runs cooler and has no high pressure. Take it for what it's worth.

    The whole reason I started using this stuff was after going to the track for a driving event and talking with others running their cars there. Two identically prepared M3's with data loggers were running and comparing data and the NPG coolant car was had lower ECT's and consequently was able to add in a couple more degrees of timing consistently.

     
  2. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,952
    1,500
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,721 / 0 / -0
    Why don't they say what it is? They say they have a patent, I didn't see a patent number anywhere on their site, I could have missed it, the site is quite the labyrinth.

    It might be great stuff, but I wouldn't use it, no matter how much anecdotal evidence they post, unless I knew what it is.

    I still think it's snake oil.

    Dave
     
  3. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    Funny thing is, I can't seem to find anything on the Prestone site about what is in their coolant nor what patents they claim to have........
     
  4. e46tor56

    e46tor56 New Member

    Nov 3, 2012
    357
    63
    0
    BMW/MINI Parts Advisor
    Southern NH
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    The label on the back of the NPG+ container states that it contains alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme inhibitor and ethylene glycol-based.
     
  5. iwashmycar

    iwashmycar Active Member

    Jun 1, 2009
    881
    87
    28
    architecture
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +87 / 0 / -0
    I'd love to give the stuff a shot. The fact that it is FAR less pressure is very appealing to me. Only downside is on my truck the thermostat is molded into the neck, so I would almost need to take the guts out of the thing rather than simply remove it.....

    Am I correct that all you need to do is evacuate all existing coolant and somehow remove the thermostat?...So the water pump just continuously pumps it?...That actually sounds bad for the engine in a DD?
     
  6. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    You could simply block it open....
     
  7. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Jan 5, 2010
    6,134
    1,588
    0
    Physician Assitant (retired)
    Sherman,Tx
    Ratings:
    +1,588 / 0 / -0
    :cornut: With that chemical composition, one would probably want to change to silicon hoses, yes?:Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  8. Angib

    Angib New Member

    Nov 25, 2009
    824
    425
    0
    (Old) England
    Ratings:
    +425 / 0 / -0
    I didn't realise that Wheeler Dealers got broadcast in the USA - that explains why they've been doing some American vehicles recently.

    And what is Edd China's Mini connection, you ask? Well, before Wheeler Dealers he used to make vehicles for promotional and film work, and he made the (classic) Mini-powered Casual Lofa, that got the world record as the fastest furniture (87mph!) - believe it or not, this is UK road-legal.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a short profile on Edd with some of his odd vehicles:

    [ame=http://youtu.be/nKpsZOvQfu4]Edd China Profile (long).mp4 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  9. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,952
    1,500
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,721 / 0 / -0
    I've done some research and found that Evans Waterless Coolant is just propylene glycol.

    So they don't have a patent on it, lots of other companies sell it. It has a boiling point of 370 F, but it doesn't transfer heat as well as the gold standard of coolants, Water!

    It is most often used in heavy equipment that is designed with excess cooling capacity to make up for it's poor heat transfer abilities.

    I thought that they hyped it a little too much.

    I still wouldn't put it in my car, unless it was diluted 50% with water.

    Dave
     
  10. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Jan 5, 2010
    6,134
    1,588
    0
    Physician Assitant (retired)
    Sherman,Tx
    Ratings:
    +1,588 / 0 / -0
    :cornut: .............and perhaps some 'Water Wetter.':Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  11. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

    May 21, 2009
    387
    217
    43
    NJ
    Ratings:
    +217 / 0 / -0
    Nothing works as good as water - however water freezes and is more corrosive -unless distilled and even then prolonged exposure to metals will change the ph of the water.



     
  12. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

    May 4, 2009
    252
    54
    28
    Ratings:
    +54 / 0 / -0
    One of the reasons to add conventional antifreeze to water is to raise the boiling point. The water passages in an engine are restrictive, and localized boiling can occur. The problem is especially present around exhaust valves. That is why you see some race engines with additional cooling lines directing flow to certain areas of the cylinder head. The Evans Coolant is propylene glycol and has a 370 degree boiling point so it does not have a problem with localized boiling. It doesn’t remove heat as well as water, but if the system operates at a higher temperature the same amount of heat can be removed as water alone. The radiator operating at a higher delta T can remove the same amount of heat as water at a lower delta T. The Evans coolant can operate at a higher temperature and not require pressurization to prevent boiling, like water as well.
     
  13. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    .....and you don't mix it with water. This is why it has such a long life.
     
  14. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,952
    1,500
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,721 / 0 / -0
    But it won't cool as well without water in it.

    Dave
     
  15. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    It will cool as described.......you can't use water with this product.
     
  16. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,952
    1,500
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,721 / 0 / -0
    Yes you can, it just doesn't cool as well without water.

    It probably won't wreck anything, if your cooling system is larger than needed, but on, say a classic Mini with a tiny radiator, I think it could do some harm. They had marginal cooling system when they were new.

    I wouldn't use it.

    Dave
     
  17. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

    May 4, 2009
    252
    54
    28
    Ratings:
    +54 / 0 / -0
    The Evans coolant is intended to be used without water. The heat transfer rate is not as good as water, but the boiling point is much higher. The amount of heat a radiator will transfer from the coolant to the air is a function of the heat transfer rate, and the temperature difference between the air and the coolant. Engineers refer to this as Delta T, or the difference in temperature between the two things you want to move heat between. The Evans Coolant will cool the engine, but the system will run at a higher temperature. Water and water with coolant systems have to be pressurized to keep from boiling. The water temperature in the water jacket of an engine is not homogeneous. The water surrounding the cylinder walls is cooler than the water around the exhaust valves. The point of the Evans Coolant is to prevent localized boiling.
     
  18. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,952
    1,500
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,721 / 0 / -0
    Localized boiling is not a bad thing. Water has a very high latent heat of vaporization, this means that when it transitions from a liquid to a vapor, it absorbs a lot of energy. That vapor, or steam is then swept away by the flow of the cooling system where it re-condenses in cooler parts of the cooling system, like the radiator. The water jacket around the valves is just where you would want localized boiling, for maximum heat transfer.

    Dave
     
  19. Savvy

    Savvy Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Apr 16, 2010
    6,832
    2,011
    113
    Mechanical Engineer/DA Civilian
    DE
    Ratings:
    +2,024 / 0 / -0
    You, sir... should stop talking.
     
  20. grodenglaive

    grodenglaive New Member

    Apr 3, 2010
    313
    68
    0
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Ratings:
    +68 / 0 / -0
    Someone posted the MSDS It's a mix of 69% ethylene glycol (regular antifreeze) with propylene glycol.
    I think the advantages would be less corrosion and allowing higher operating temperatures without blowing a seal.
     

Share This Page