Waterless Engine Coolant

Discussion in 'General Technical Questions and Answers' started by Friskie, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

    May 4, 2009
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    First let me say I am not suggesting anyone use Evans Coolant. I have not used it and do not plan to. There are a number of issues that have not been discussed here. One of those questions is the affect on the oil temperature if you operate at a higher temperature. I am aware it has had some success in the heavy duty truck business, but I do not know why.
    I was around when the people developing Evans Coolant were racing Trans-Am. I have also been involved with a number of race engine projects. Developing a racing engine from a production engine, especially a highly turbocharged engine, requires a lot of work on controlling the heat generated. One of the tools used on the dyno as well as track development are lots of thermocouples in the cylinder head to insure the cooling system is not boiling. It is absolutely correct that there is a very large amount of heat transferred when water changes from liquid water to steam, there is also a volume change that influences whether it is a good idea to boil water around the exhaust valves. The volume difference between water as a liquid and a gas is 1600 times. I would suggest that if you could control the boiling around the valves and the bubbles could flow away the cooling system would be very efficient. Let’s look at some of the problems. The area inside the water jackets is very restricted, and despite improved designs and castings the flow is not even to all areas. Cooling systems are designed to remove a specific amount of heat under specific conditions. Change the outside air temperature and the heat rejection rate changes. Increase the power of the engine from the original design and the system will need to reject more heat. Engines operate at different power levels. As the power level changes the heat rejected changes. If you have an engine that operates over very different power levels and control the heat rejection level if you have the huge heat transfer from the phase change from water to steam. It takes one BTU to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree. It takes something over 500 BTUs to change water liquid to water gas at the same temperature.
     
  2. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

    May 21, 2009
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    If you think that is a ok or not a bad thing - please surrender your car and license somewhere.

    Localised boiling can lead to hot spots as it usually occurs where the coolant flow is not such that fresh coolant arrives quickly enough. This in turn leads to little trapped vapor pockets since air / vapor is a very poor conductor of heat the localised spot gets much hotter than areas around it, and lastly there is the pressure differential created when a liquid expands into a gas - this is UNDESIRABLE in an automotive cooling system.

    I would also like to ask you to investigate what vapor lock means - in the context of a pressurized cooling system. Add this to what I posted above and you will realize the complete folly of your statement.

     
  3. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    Oct 23, 2010
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    Vapor lock is a fuel problem, where the gasoline vaporizes in the fuel line and prevents further flow of fuel. It is no longer a problem on modern cars with fuel injection and high pressure fuel systems.

    Vapor lock in a cooling system would have be the result of an improperly designed system, and rarely, if ever, happens in modern cars.

    A properly designed cooling system would take into account localized boiling and take advantage of it. I haven't heard that it is a problem in modern cars, particularly our MINIs.

    Still, running 100% antifreeze is a very poor idea.

    Dave
     
  4. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    It is real easy to control a increase in volume of 1600 times in the small passages of a engine cooling system.
     
  5. Mr. Jim

    Mr. Jim Mudshark
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    May 22, 2010
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    A BTU is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of One Pound of water one degree Fahrenheit...... Just saying.....
     
  6. Mr. Jim

    Mr. Jim Mudshark
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    Heat added to a liquid to cause a change of state to a gas/vapor. (One pound of water at 212°F becomes one pound of steam at 212°F when 970.3 BTU's of heat are added)
     
  7. BRG_Paul

    BRG_Paul Active Member

    Nov 20, 2011
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    I just stumbled upon this thread. Interesting ... but I agree with some on here that think its snake oil.

    If this had any real merit then the OEMs would adopt it. If the cooling is so much better using this "elixir" then OEMs could use a small radiator for the same amount of heat rejection. Small radiator = lower weight = smaller engine compartment. So why aren't they using it?

    The snake oil people always claim that big bad Mr. OEM has a "not invented here" mentality. Not so...if there were a measurable advantage (with no ill effects) then it would be universally accepted.

    No offense intended to those who use it. If it works for you, great. I am simply a skeptic.
    ...and a heat transfer engineer.
     
  8. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

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    Vapor lock can occur in the cooling system - you are deluding yourself if you think it cannot.

     
  9. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    WolfGTI,

    You need to calm down a bit.

    Just go ahead and use 100% antifreeze in your car, I really don't care.

    Dave
     
  10. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

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    I don't need to calm down - I am not agitated or anything of the sort. I just don't like to see silliness posted.

    I have been running it in my Cooper S for 5 years and almost 75000 miles - no issues - car runs very well thanks.

     
  11. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    You just seemed so hostile, I thought you were upset, sorry.

    I don't think you are doing your car any favors.

    Dave
     

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