Back on topic... I thought that backer plates weren't about pedal feel or travel, but were about saving the pistons from having to extend to near 100% to get that last little bit of pad material to the rotor. When this happens, the pistons can take on a bit of an angle under harder braking and the pads wear unevenly. The pads let the pistons stay more retracted and they then have more lateral stability. Thanks for the mini-caliper rebuild tutorial. I need to do this for my Wilwood calipers. Can you / should you rebuild the stock calipers as well? A similar procedure?
Makes sense about the backing plates. I'm getting big time uneven pad wear on the caliper in question without them, but I think it's a piston issue, so looks like I was off target with the backing plates. Good question on the rear calipers. I've been thinking about just replacing them, but I'm not sure I want to lose the parking brake.
This is pretty much right on all accounts. The pad wear plates are used to control piston extension thus ensuring more compliance to the bore. Taper wear comes more from the use of a 'square bore' (ie. equal size) caliper than that of a differential bore part (leading and trailing) because as the pad bites the rotor the is a gaseous build up that develops and prevents the trailing from working as well. The solution is to flip the pads at the first sign of taper to counter it. Then consider the wear plates as well. To remove the pistons I'd suggest you first remove the pads, slip in a cut paint stick and just pump the pedal a couple of times....seems simple enough. Not certain of the Outlaws but the Wilwood should allow the pistons to come out quite a ways and not dislodge. Having pistons in or even half in and blowing air into the inlet is going to push out one piston. Then what will you do? I'm also reasonably certain my Wilwood 1.375 seals will fit the Outlaw as well. And I have assembly lube for the re fit. Seal kits run $13 per caliper and the lube is $7. Clean, clean, clean, wet down everything with lube very well and gently push pistons back in one at a time. Re fit, install, bleed rinse with water. *But all that and I'm out now for about ten days so if you (or anyone) wants some parts it won't ship out until Monday the 23rd....sorry, race weekend and teen driving program in Seattle back to back.
BTW, I just realized Way's at MTTS. If somebody there wants to ask him about Outlaw caliper rebuilds and post back, that'd be awesome.
If you're in NC then finding a race shop with these should be pretty easy. Outlaw Disc Brakes I count ten dealers but don't know their relation to where you are.
Way is a great guy but Outlaw calipers are pretty much a commodity. If you're hurting for parts, they are available all over the place. They are also clones of one of the Wilwood calipers, so I think Todd is right and his will fit as well. But someone will have to try to know for sure. If you can wait, then by all means, buy from your favorite supplier. Matt
The seals are cheap, like 9 bucks for a pack of 4. I broke down and bought them from ppm racing or something like that--I'm going out of town, and I'm running out of time to get the rebuild done. Next time I'll buy from Way, but with MTTS and me going out of town, I'm running out of time. The Wilwoods look like they come in 1.38 square too--Todd, it's probably not worth your while, but if you have one laying around, even a used one, when I do my rebuild I can check and see if it fits.
The seals are cheap, like 9 bucks for a pack of 4. I broke down and bought them from ppm racing or something like that--I'm going out of town, and I'm running out of time to get the rebuild done. Next time I'll buy from Way, but with MTTS and me going out of town, I'm running out of time. It's not like these are a big ticket item. The Wilwoods look like they come in 1.38 square too--Todd, it's probably not worth your while, but if you have one laying around, even a used one, when I do my rebuild I can check and see if it fits.
Just checked with Way, he will have all the caliper rebuild stuff. Give him until about Wednesday to get back and catch his breath.
Just rebuilt the calipers yesterday (going to blackhawk friday). Some random musings: I tried the plastic bag over the end trick, still ended up with a slow (but manageable) leak of fluid. It collected in the bag, but I had to drain it a couple of times to prevent spillage. So I used saran wrap and a rubber band, put a plastic bag over that with a rubber band, and not a drop spilled. Todd's paint stick trick worked perfectly--what a great idea. No fuss at all getting the pistons out. One thing I learned--when you take the pistons out, do it in a basin--I did it on my (fortunately covered) working area, only to get a big spill of brake fluid (doh!). Live and learn.... Seals were a little chewed up on a couple of the cylinders, but the others looked surpisingly good. As for removing the seals, I used a tiny forceps--didn't even have to touch the metal with them. Pick should work great too though. As for reinserting the pistons, got the first one in, and it was killing my fingers--so I used a long wrench, put some padding around the body of it, laid the body flat across the piston and pushed on either end--you have to rotate the wrench periodically to keep the piston going in consistently--this worked great. I bled twice--and managed to get air in the line the second time (the pressure bleeder had plenty of fluid, but somehow the brake resevoir got a little low--never had that happen before). So I rebled; going to drive around today and bleed one more time tonight--brakes felt good this morning, but I want to make sure... And I think I found the reason for the uneven pad wear. When my brakes were initially installed, they required a couple of spacers (they're probably like 1 mm) to get the caliper centered over the rotor. I had a shop work on the car earlier this year, and it looks like they moved the spacers to act like washers instead of spacers. This brought the inner side of the caliper too close to the rotor--I could barely get a pad in. Finally a light bulb went off (I had forgotten about the spacers), I put them back where they were supposed to be, and now the caliper is perfectly centered, and it's equidistant from the rotor on both sides.
:idea: Cool, thanks for the feedback. Have fun at Blackhawk. One trick I picked up while installing brake lines on a friend's MINI a couple weeks ago is the use of a crutch. Literally. Take a crutch and push down on the brake pedal. Jam the armpit end against the headrest, and the fluid doesn't leak out. Once the master cylinder is depressed even a little bit, you isolate the reservoir and close the system, making it much harder for the brakes to leak. A long 2x4 would do the same thing.