These guys have had me scratching my head for several years... In person, Jan is about the nicest person you'll ever meet. I've never met Lynn, but by all accounts, I've heard the exact same thing. What has finally soured me is all the chest thumping--it's ok here and there, but it's the same crap that shows up in multiple threads, over and over, and even resurrected threads--it becomes comical to a certain degree, how folks will find a way to put a plug in for something, or use an accomplishment to take an indirect slap on a competitor. Just show us what you can do with some reproducible data without bashing the other guy. It's gotten so repetitive that you can usually guess what the next post is going to say by looking at the previous post. There is WAY too much baiting going on.... When I see these, they're strictly for entertainment purposes only at this point. The information we want isn't going to be found on these boards, or NAM. There are people who have independently tested a number of these competing products, but will not post here. Fortunately, they have telephones.... If there is a way to get Lynn and Jan to ignore each other, and post useful information--and they have plenty to contribute--by all means, let's move forward. If they can't, and are crapping all over the boards, then something needs to be done, because there is useful information out there that's not being put on the boards specifically because of this type of behavior. Myne's has already come out and said that, but they're not the only one's sitting on info that folks would kill to get, but won't offer it up because it's not worth the ensuing firefight.
Nathan, it's certainly your call. There are several knowledgeable experts and vendors on this site that that have the sense not to get baited into these shenanigans. I would rather loose the trouble makers than see the site degenerate into something like the sewing site. So far you and the moderators have kept a watchful eye on this, and prevented it from happening.
Well played sir. I come here as it's a great resource. It's nice to know before you post that your questions will be answered in a productive manner. Without that I think most people would be hesitant to post anything. On the flip side, if they want to bicker, throw it in the off-topic section, so as not to thread jack a legitimate post/question.
Thank you Nathan - We weren't discussing tuning. You ask them to play nice. They both have valuable insite and do not need to go after each other.
One thought is to do what some of the Mazda sites have done--have a tighly regulated aftermarket part/tuner subforum. 'Course they'd have to be sponsors, but for the tuners that are sponsors, it's a thought. No cross posting in another tuners thread, no trolling by fanboys, etc, etc. Myne's, for example, has there own forum on their website. There is stuff there people here would be interested in here, but there's not even a hint of it over here. RMW, Werkin, WMW, Nitrostick, etc., in one place with their own little domain--you'd corner the Net market with that, because it'll never happen on NAM. Probably impossible to pull off, but just a thought.
Are you referring to something along these lines as seen at Mazda Forums - Powered by vBulletin where there is the Main Sponsors area? Or something along the line where there is a separate address such as FredsFenders.motoringalliance.com and it is its own standalone forum for Fred and his fenders but linked to the main?
How about the so-called "pro's" grow up and quit acting like playground bullies and offer advice to potential customers with politeness and professionalism? Just a thought... :idea:
More like the first one. There is another Mazda site (or maybe it was an S2000 site, I'll have to see if I can track it down) that had something very similar to that--there was a JDM tuning section, and other competing tuners/products--and it was for the most part very civil, and a very nice way to get info. The tuners/vendors had their own thread, and everyone plays by the same rules. It's not that there still isn't crapping in threads like that (there always will be to some extent, nature of the beast), but it's much less of an issue than what's happend at NAM and now, to a certain extent, here. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth (admittedly very little), but reorganizing the vendors area by vendor/tuner, rather than by subject (If you look at the vendors forum as it stands now, it's really not that busy, so it's not going to be a radical change for the site), and laying the ground rules, is a win-win--vendors get exposure in a concise format, and you're the only place on the web that's able to deliver that. Myne's can talk about their new header, Jan has got some stuff in the pipeline people are going to be interested in, Group 4 is in there, Thumper can promote what he's got--all in one forum. It would only work if the vendors were on board, and you were up for it. It's a longshot, but it'd be very cool.... If it became a "go to" source for information, the vendors would be more inclined to play by the rules....
The whole "vendor can't post in another vendor's thread/area" didn't go over so well on NAM as vendors were unable to stick up for themselves when trash talked in another vendor's thread/area. I believe they removed the restriction...though I may be wrong.
You'd have to make it vendor specific--one of the rules would have to be no bashing another vendor in a vendor thread. That can be a fine line sometimes.... It goes without saying that vendors are going to be looking at all the threads, not just their own. If there was something objectionable, they could bring it up with one of the mods (This is what happens on sites with setups like this). Which is why it MIGHT work here, whereas there isn't a chance of it working at NAM--the mods here are a bit more in the know of who/what is legit. If it stays the way it is, I fear we're doomed to repeating history... There is no perfect solution, but anything is better than what we have now. Maybe hashing this out with vendor input for what would and wouldn't work for them will result in a better setup for everyone. Don't want to see the vendors get hurt, especially those like yourself who do just fine the way things are setup now. Problem is there are a few people with issues who bring the forums down--and unfortunately some of those people are high profile people in the community that have something to offer, once you get around the BS. Getting rid of them isn't the best option, but providing a framework where everyone can work and play in one spot would be VERY nice from a consumers standpoint.
Versus, I'm having a hard time reading any of your posts, with that Avatar you have:ihih:. My take on the idea cct1 has put forward has merit, but moderating it could be a nightmare. Mark
He's been posting??? I thought he/she was just putting the photo up everywhere... CRAP! Now I gotta go back and see what was typed!
I'm more of a fan... of people having manners. If they don't behave, slap them. All the creation of posting rules what where can be a morass of hassle. And while it may stop a direct back and forth, it doesn't stop anyone who wants to start another thread that talks about the issue. And in a way, it does nothing to foster better behavior. I say just bitcch slap those who cross the boundaries of behaviour, and leave the rules written into the site code as minimal as possible. Matt
You don't necessarily have to make a ton of rules--just individual tuner threads that are respected. While I am a huge fan of the bitcch slap, it just hasn't worked in the past with regard to the MINI crowd. It's the same crap that's been going on for 7+ years, only the names and faces periodically change... The flip side is there is some benefit for those of us looking at vendors--be very nice to have everything in a neat tidy package, just from an organizational standpoint. It would be unique to this site; if it actually worked, it could be a major calling card for MA. But if the vendors hate the idea, there's really no point. But IMHO, I think trying something different can't hurt. It was only a matter of time before these personal fights spilled over here; really the only definitive options are a permanent ban (which I'd hate to see--even though some vendors can drive you up the wall, it's a shame to lose someone who's doing this much in the MINI venue, even with all their warts), or redefine the playground. Otherwise this sight degenerates into another NAM, and I don't think that's an option that's on Nate's table...