I like your idea cct1, however I need to look into it a lot more. For one thing, if a sponsor is not active then that sponsors area becomes a dead zone. Seeing a lot of "Never" listed under last activity sure does scare off new folks, in fact one of the cardinal rules when creating a new site is not to load it up with lots of individual forums. As the site grows the admin should add areas as warranted. I also need to poll the sponsors and get their input. The one I spoke to so far is against the idea. But that was only one. Lastly, I need to go visit other sites and see how it is working for them. Thanks for the input, I do listen and research ideas ya'll submit. Please keep them coming.
I'm not a real fan of barriers if only a vendor and non-vendors can post, it's really just a marketing tool, under the guise of educational exchange. If other vendors offer constructive input, then thier experience and value can help. One has to keep in mind conflicts of interest, though. Like others have said, there is no perfect solution. I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other. Really, how many times is stuff like this an issue here? On NAM one of the problems was that enforcement was a bit spotty and inconsitant. Some of that was the governance, some of it was just the sheer volume of posts. MA is at a size where that's not really a problem, yet..... Matt
to Nathan for the quick action. One question..........Lynn (Nitrominis) is not a sponsor/vender right? If so, then what we had was a member (Lynn) trolling (as usual) for the RMW fish. This in and of itself should not be allowed as I believe this is actually what led to the bickering. I would like to see the site maintain what it has done to remedy these kinds of situations.
Actually, neither Lynn or Jan are a sponsor on MA. So it was just the same two antagonists, but in a different rink. As I've said before, this was not looked at in a vacuum and past history was taken in consideration.
Ahhhhh..... So is Jan going to be req'd to get sponsor status then.......I would hope so if he is going to continue to post about "tuning"
All good points, and yes, the vendor section would be to a certain degree a marketing tool--but it's not really that much different from what's going on now, just more compartmentalized, maybe a bit more obvious to those who haven't been following this for years. It wouldn't replace the regular area of the boards, just the vendor area, so there still would be a place for back and forth. It can be difficult is determining conflicts of interest if you are new to these boards/discussions--a vendor area may help with this. As you said, it's not a huge issue here yet, but could be in the future. But what I keep trying to say is that this could be more than just fixing a problem--it could be a significant addition to the community, and to MA, IF sponsors get on board--it would be the only place in the MINI kingdom where the various major competing tuners/vendors were in the same space, with easy access. And best of all it would be HERE. How cool would it be to have a subforum with a Werkin area, WMW area, Mynes area, RMW area, Group 4 area, etc. etc.? It probably won't happen, but It'd sure as hell pique a ton of interest if it did. Check out the link Nate put in to the Miata site, if you haven't already, and here is another to a S2000 site: Mazda Forums - Powered by vBulletin S2KI – Honda S2000 Community There are other better examples out there I'm sure, but personally I find this very appealing. It may not be doable--it probably won't fly--MINI vendors may not have the time or desire to do this. But what's the harm in trying? Over at NAM, it's become more or less an RMW dominated site, especially with Mynes gone. Not blaming Jan, but it's pretty one sided over there at the moment--if your opinion does not include effusive praise for RMW, there's a pretty good chance a certain mod over there will let you know about it. Motoring Torque is exactly the opposite; it's a Myne's dominated site with RMW on the outs. It would be nice to have one unbiased site that you could trust out there, and herein lies a golden opportunity...
I've done a little bit of informal polling with a very small subset of the sponsors. In theory they think it may be a good idea, however, in practice they don't have the time to or staff at this point to make such an area viable for them. That's not to say this idea is dead. I'm floating the idea of a hybrid of the current area and dedicated area. I plan on creating a mock up and getting that around. It's on the white board to do list. There are other projects currently under development that come first. One thing to note is the size of the Mazda and S2K forums noted. The S2K site has over 90K members and the Mazda is close behind at just under 90K, both are larger and more active then the largest MINI based site.
Again, the people posting need to be respectful, professional, and positive. If you just show to *****, complain and flame, there is no reason to be here...
Maybe if vendors/sponsors/members could promote or express their opinions and provide data without first prefacing it with derogatory remarks about another vendors/sponsors/members products, data and services things would be a bit more civil. Express your opinion and or promote your goods and services on their own merits... Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
That's why IMHO it's not a bad time to try something different--in an ideal world, it would be like Minimark posted, but in the real world, it's just not going to happen... Couple of things I didn't realize--how much bigger the mazda and S2000 boards are compared to the MINI boards--but it makes perfect sense, considering how many of those cars are out there. It may not be worth the effort for the MINI vendors. But maybe something like Nate suggested, a hybrid type of setup, may be worthwhile for everyone involved--if a sponsor made the effort, I'd certainly steer toward that sponsor with my business. Anyway, regardless of wether anything comes out of this or not, it's VERY cool of Nate to solicit opinions--most boards would never do anything like this, nor are they obligated to. Sites like these can't be pure democracies--it's impossible to run a site that way, but it's still nice to know members opinions matter.
Debates, even lively debates can be and are informative to the casual reader wanting to learn more. Just try and be civil about it, staying away from personal attacks..... 2 cents Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
What he said. Provide data if going against said post. Dont' just call bull*&^% Tell us why.. and if you don't tune cars you shouldn't be telling people how to!!!
Idealogical confrontation can be very healthy and can help to see the bigger picture on an issue, but as mentioned............the discussion must be on the issue and only the issue. Data is always useful in making a point. However, sometimes vendors will not share data indicating that they do not want to 'give-away' their research and development investment.
Another way to think about it.... internet debates tend to be knowledge by majority rule. This is the antithesis of actual objective data presentation and review. So I have to say I don't think that real debate on the internet is that usefull. This may be heresy, but I really think that if you want to learn something, forum posts aren't that usefull, mine included..... Look, the mini is just a car. Cars have been modded for ages. There is little new or really revolutionary here. But there is tons of stuff that is new to many of the readers. That's cool. Really, for first principle stuff, read a book. What the forums are best for is some detail on specific issues for the MINI, a how to or two, and some (I hope) friendly banter. Another way to look at it is that every vendor has a built in conflict of interest. Is information for education or to generate sales? Probably a bit of both.... So can a reader really know what the motives are? Or the spin? Anyway, just another point of view on this stuff... Matt