2nd Gen R56 Cooper S Are Your R56 S Valves Floating at High RPM????

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Metalman, May 22, 2011.

  1. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,549
    7,423
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,435 / 0 / -0
  2. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,861
    1,401
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,530 / 0 / -0
    The hot glue engine mount mod is brilliant!

    Maybe BMW already uses the stiffer valve springs.

    As an aside, I have an old boxer engined Soviet military motorcycle, in which they purposely used piano wire to make the valve springs. They act as a rev limiter, to save the engine from ham handed soldiers.

    Dave
     
  3. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,549
    7,423
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,435 / 0 / -0
    I don't know about that...
    BMW tends to assign a new P/N's when they make a change.

    I was wondering if the new spring was the "Beehive" type?

    Some of our valve specialists may chime in??
     
  4. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 22, 2009
    4,941
    2,864
    113
    Male
    Overland Park, Ks
    Ratings:
    +3,078 / 1 / -0
    The rev limiter comes in before the valves float on my car.....
     
  5. david in germany

    david in germany New Member

    Dec 15, 2010
    250
    5
    0
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    This sounds familiar to my problem running any of Jan's Higher boost tunes! He thinks it is because of my HPFP but it doesn't do it with the 1st tune he sent me.
    I like to call the feeling more like "stumbling" It happens in the higher RPMs and I think the computer then cuts boost and once I bring the RPMs back down I can boost again up to that point of stumbling.
     
  6. czar

    czar New Member

    Mar 25, 2010
    29
    24
    0
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Here is what I wrote on the, Peugeot 207 GTI oc forum.

    There is a very good reason they have a different spring pressure rate, these springs are designed to work with the variable lift valvetrain, BMW Mini N18 engine, if I remember correctly, this has a operating lift window between 0.3mm - 9.6mm of valve lift

    You should also be aware that the original valve springs, are more than adequate, and are not responsible on there own for allowing valve float or misfires at the upper regions of the RPM band, the extra weight of the carbon which burns onto the inlet valve, upsets the seating pressure, and this is the real reason for valve float, misfires and seating pressure loss.
     
  7. cambunbosti

    cambunbosti New Member

    Mar 10, 2013
    1
    0
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hy any solution to these? i have the same problem my CMS pulo strong until i go full throtle, in hi revs the boost is lost to 8 psi and then when i change gear it came back to 16 psi. Thanking you in advanced for your help.

    Also i notice that in first gear the car only hits 12 psi and then on second gear its gose to 16 psi
     
  8. jiminni

    jiminni Well-Known Member

    May 7, 2009
    1,590
    259
    83
    Ca.
    Ratings:
    +259 / 0 / -0
    I affirm this statement. The R56 runs out of steam around 6k anyway, why over rev it? Now my R53, different story, I have a 8k limit, so I'm using special componets, beehive springs, titanium retainers, specially designed for the Mini.
     
  9. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 22, 2009
    4,941
    2,864
    113
    Male
    Overland Park, Ks
    Ratings:
    +3,078 / 1 / -0
    I think cambunbosti's problem is different, either his blow off valve isn't working correctly, or his maf sensor is out of whack, cutting his boost.

    It's true the gen 1 motors were all about rpm, where the turbo motors are more about torque and fuel mileage.
     
  10. jiminni

    jiminni Well-Known Member

    May 7, 2009
    1,590
    259
    83
    Ca.
    Ratings:
    +259 / 0 / -0
    Yep.....with the 2nd Gen's individual coils, the ECU can do a much better job in balancing power with fuel efficiency......but that's about the only thing better than a 1st gen engine. I would have said the direct injection also but......we all know the problem with that.
     
  11. Ahmet Akyurek

    Ahmet Akyurek New Member

    Jul 31, 2019
    6
    1
    3
    Male
    Motion Graphic Designer
    TURKEY
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Hello guys.
    I have a high RPM problem.( after 4-5K rpm) I thought, I have a valve floting. I bought valve springs from supertech.
    My repairman changed them. But the problem is not solved.
    That's my problem;


    I thought my problem is about my cylinder head. It polished and enlarged intake and exhaust ports.
    I don't get a ECU fault code. This is a very difficult situation.
    Anyone Do you have a same stiuation?
    Sorry I didn't say anything about my car. It is 2011 Mini cooper S and it has a N18 type engine.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    179
    81
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +102 / 0 / -0
    I too have supertech springs, installed on Thumper's N14 head with oversized ex ports, Cat Cams, etc. Pulls like a beast at high RPM's. What kind of boost are you getting, all the way through the RPM range? I'm betting it's dropping from the teens to almost nothing. Yes, valve float can cause this, but not at such low RPM's. More likely it's a dying or bad turbo.
     
  13. Ahmet Akyurek

    Ahmet Akyurek New Member

    Jul 31, 2019
    6
    1
    3
    Male
    Motion Graphic Designer
    TURKEY
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    thank you so much @oldbrokenwind
    Last year my engine Exploded. We bought a new engine for my mini.
    firstly We Tuned the engine. - Supertech Engine components. forged cylinder arms, heads, valve springs, ARP Head Bolts, Hybrit Turbo, Port Polished and enlarged cylinder head. And we tuned the ECU. But there was a problem. Power reduce and high RPM problem. First gear is good, I can see easyly 6500RPM. second 6000RPM, third 5000rpm 4-5-6 same stuation. We tried change engine components. Engine is opened 2 times for checking. I changed 5 car service and 3 ECU tune programmer. And I talked a lot of specialist. Everyone say different things. Some people problem is cylinder head. A specialist said me "you have a engine timing problem, check it again" But I don't get a ECU fault code about timing. When my car have an ecu software tune I got 2 ecu fault. P10F2 and P1260. I got missfire issues when after 3000 rpm. I removed Ecu software tune. Now I have stock ecu Software.
    When I started to the engine in the morning. Everything is awesome. Intake and boost Pressures are perfect. When I push the gas pedal. All presures are going up. I atached some files about my problem. Thank you for your interest.

    Morning start;
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoj0bpbtzzptidm/pressures.mp4?dl=0
     

    Attached Files:

  14. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    179
    81
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +102 / 0 / -0
    I don't do DropBox, can you put the video on youtube? If your problems go away with stock software, that's a pretty good indication the tune is your problem. Since the N18 has variable intake cam timing, your "specialist" might be correct --- the new tune might need to be adjusted. There's a lot of advantages to getting the tune installed while on a dyno, or at least while the tuner is a passenger, doing data logging, to see the problem first hand. Have you looked up the fault code definition? They usually give you a pretty good idea of where to start looking for the problem.
     
  15. Ahmet Akyurek

    Ahmet Akyurek New Member

    Jul 31, 2019
    6
    1
    3
    Male
    Motion Graphic Designer
    TURKEY
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Sorry for the dropbox.
    I uploaded video on youtube;


    Yes I looked to the ECU Fault code with my repairman. But we didn't find anything.
    It is Interesting stuation, There is no noisy working on engine or another strange problem. Engine is working perfect. Just It is going like diesel Renult clio. 110ps :)
    Maybe I need more professional car service. But I didn't find them yet :))
    I will go to the another specialist repairman on thp engines. I hope he will be fix my problem. I will focus on Valvetronic system.
    I will report updates.
     
  16. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    179
    81
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +102 / 0 / -0
    Here's a list of codes that includes yours --- https://www.motoringalliance.com/articles/ecu-codes-chart-2nd-generation-mini.57/
    Things to check look like waste gate not opening, cat converter blocked, things that control boost pressure compared to ambient air pressure. Maybe your hybrid is putting out more boost than the ECU wants to see --- a minor tuning problem. If you can't find a Mini specialist, look for one specializing in Peugeot's.
    Unfortunately, the video and pic don't mean anything to me --- I'm not familiar with kPa or how the numbers should relate to each other.
     
  17. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    9,562
    5,117
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +5,848 / 7 / -0
  18. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    179
    81
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +102 / 0 / -0
    Thanx MCS02. This conversion chart shows all negative kPa's as a vacuum --- bigger the number, more the vacuum. So, neither the still pic nor the video show a positive number for boost, therefore no boost is being produced. You need to find out why.

    Something I found a long time ago was, boost cannot be produced when sitting stationery, like when in a garage, in neutral and not moving. Just racing the engine won't do it. Now, this was my untuned N14. Chances are, the ECU senses no wheel rotation and enables the diverter valve, or something else to prevent boost. Maybe the later N18 is different, another argument for data logging on the road or on a dyno. So Ahmet, you tell us --- were the video and pic taken on the road or while parked someplace?
     
  19. Ahmet Akyurek

    Ahmet Akyurek New Member

    Jul 31, 2019
    6
    1
    3
    Male
    Motion Graphic Designer
    TURKEY
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Thank you so much for your feedback.
    I met an ECU software developer. I told him about my problem of Mini.
    He told me, "I think It is not about timing or hardware. your problem is with software. You can't get usual performance with factory software. You have need an engine advance adjustment from a proffesional develloper. I don't work on cars that engines modified."
    So I decided to go another ECU software developer.
    I left my car there in order to get software development. They will look after it. I will inform you about the recent news.
    I attached my last living data on the road.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    9,562
    5,117
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +5,848 / 7 / -0
    @oldbrokenwind knows more than me but .8 PSI is no boost at all. I don't remember what my R58 JCW is but its around 20 PSI. As @oldbrokenwind said earlier you may have a turbo problem.
     

Share This Page